eBikes and electric powered vehicles (including the Elf)

[DismalScientist]

Mopeds, motorcycles and Segways have two wheels. That doesn’t make them bicycles.

I wouldn’t object to tricycles or old, rusty 1940’s pedal cars being used in Freezing Saddles.

[dplasters]

The USGA has a new thing where if you play a round of golf solo, you can’t post it for handicapping purposes. Its a bit like freezing saddles. If people are going to sandbag and cheat, they’re going to sandbag and cheat. I’ll be doing several centuries this year. I’ll just go ahead and manually enter them. I may also just keep my phone on and my car in 1st gear….

Don’t forget about the great rcannon avg speed of 50mph kerfuffle of 2015!

It’s an honor system.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[jnva]

I totally get why the elf guy should ride on the streets, which is why I started riding my ebike on the road until I was almost killed last year after slipping on ice. I don’t have an answer to this and haven’t read through the entire thread, but has anyone suggested a team for the electric vehicles? I might join that team…

[cvcalhoun]

@jnva 129785 wrote:

I totally get why the elf guy should ride on the streets, which is why I started riding my ebike on the road until I was almost killed last year after slipping on ice. I don’t have an answer to this and haven’t read through the entire thread, but has anyone suggested a team for the electric vehicles? I might join that team…

I’m not sure what a team for electric vehicles would accomplish. We normally try to keep teams as evenly matched as possible, which would suggest, if anything, trying to divide them equally among the teams.

[kcb203]

My concern about the ELF is more practical. I haven’t seen it out in the dark yet. Maybe it’s just my good luck, or maybe he doesn’t ride in the dark. But the danger of that thing barreling down the trail is magnified in the dark when I can’t see how big it is or whether it’s in my lane. It reminds me of the old Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride at Disneyworld where there are train sounds and a huge train headlight barreling down at you as you ride through in a little car thingy. Only when you’re about to get hit do you realize the headlight has no train attached and is just following a track on the ceiling.

Look at about 1:40 into this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWu6OThkq14

[cvcalhoun]

@kcb203 129790 wrote:

My concern about the ELF is more practical. I haven’t seen it out in the dark yet. Maybe it’s just my good luck, or maybe he doesn’t ride in the dark. But the danger of that thing barreling down the trail is magnified in the dark when I can’t see how big it is or whether it’s in my lane. It reminds me of the old Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride at Disneyworld where there are train sounds and a huge train headlight barreling down at you as you ride through in a little car thingy. Only when you’re about to get hit do you realize the headlight has no train attached and is just following a track on the ceiling.

Look at about 1:40 into this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWu6OThkq14

Well, I think the issue of whether an Elf should be allowed on bike lanes was rather thoroughly covered in a different thread. Can we please keep this one to what kinds of e-assist bicycles, if any, should be allowed in Freezing Saddles? Given that barring such vehicles entirely would exclude several valued members from the competition, I really want to make sure this gets proper attention.

[S. Arlington Observer]

One thing that should exclude the Elf and not be reliant on a wheel count would be to say that the vehicle must not have an enclosed cabin. It should essentially expose the rider to the elements. I know that some regular bicycles have what appears to be a windshield but no roof. I would leave it to others to refine the definitions. I had originally voted for no assistance but now believe that e-bikes should be allowed so long as the rider is actually out in the freezing weather and subject to an unexpected rain shower or snow flurry

[dasgeh]

It seems like there’s consensus around the idea of not letting the Elf-guy play. You can say it’s because he’s a troll. You can say it’s because he’s enclosed. Or on 3 wheels*. Or too wide. Or whatever.

Can we just say he’s out and leave it at that? Stick with last year’s rules, which are also the NBC rules — ebike rides and ebike rides.

*As long as we don’t have a hard and fast rule that says >2 wheels are out, because we would exclude people hauling trailers or trail-a-bikes or kid-hauling Trikes.

[Steve O]

@dasgeh 129811 wrote:

It seems like there’s consensus around the idea of not letting the Elf-guy play. You can say it’s because he’s a troll. You can say it’s because he’s enclosed. Or on 3 wheels*. Or too wide. Or whatever.

Hey! This seems like a good contest. Best, or cleverest, or most sardonic idea for why we exclude him wins a pointless prize.
Who wants to sponsor this one?

[Steve O]

@S. Arlington Observer 129801 wrote:

…so long as the rider is actually out in the freezing weather and subject to an unexpected rain shower or snow flurry

Or….

[dasgeh]

@S. Arlington Observer 129801 wrote:

One thing that should exclude the Elf and not be reliant on a wheel count would be to say that the vehicle must not have an enclosed cabin. It should essentially expose the rider to the elements. I know that some regular bicycles have what appears to be a windshield but no roof. I would leave it to others to refine the definitions. I had originally voted for no assistance but now believe that e-bikes should be allowed so long as the rider is actually out in the freezing weather and subject to an unexpected rain shower or snow flurry

Note that we count anyone’s rides wherever they happen to be. I believe we’ve had rides logged in Florida, Hawaii, South America…

[S. Arlington Observer]

@Steve O 129820 wrote:

Hey! This seems like a good contest. Best, or cleverest, or most sardonic idea for why we exclude him wins a pointless prize.
Who wants to sponsor this one?

There isn’t actually any reason why every possible situation has to be addressed (yet). If, as seems evident, there is near unanimity that Elf type vehicles are not appropriate, simply say that “Elfs and essentially similar enclosed vehicles (if there are other brands) are not permitted”.

Over time the world between bicycles and assisted or motorized cycles (even greenly powered, such pure solar) will continue to blur. Perhaps a group can use the after season to meet, debate, drink, discuss, drink, etc. how else to draw lines in the future. For the moment the main consensus is with Elf type vehicles. One can stop there. The “rules” need not make sense in a legal sense. It is a voluntary exercise. If the group does not want Elfs then no Elfs. Figuring out everything in between sounds like a great warm season activity.

[cvcalhoun]

@dasgeh 129828 wrote:

Note that we count anyone’s rides wherever they happen to be. I believe we’ve had rides logged in Florida, Hawaii, South America…

Yes, and we count rides in the DC area even if the weather does not include snow flurries, showers, or freezing rain. I think the idea is that we have to be exposed to the elements, whatever they may be in our chosen venue, not that the elements have to be unfavorable.

[timo96]

@Steve O 129821 wrote:

Or….

hmmm, good idea. ELF guy can play if he attaches a plow to the front of his car. Make himself useful, imo / jmo.
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[sjclaeys]

There was the proposal of ebike rides being included with the Bunch o’ Slackers. The idea is that this allows ebike riders to participate and to address questions about whether e-assisted rides should count to the days/miles count. I do not recall seeing any responses to this proposal. if I missed them, I apologize. Thanks

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