eBikes and electric powered vehicles (including the Elf)

[cvcalhoun]

This poll is intended only to guide the organizers in determining whether there is a consensus on the issue. No guarantees are made that we will follow the majority vote, if no actual consensus emerges.

Please read the discussion before voting. Three people so far have wanted to change their votes after reading the discussion. If this happens with you, please say so in a comment so that we can keep track.

Someone who uses an ELF (and considers it a bicycle) has now put in a registration. I’m assuming he plans to use the ELF for his miles. We therefore need to determine what vehicles are permitted to be counted in the competition.

My own inclination is to count miles by bikes that are primarily human powered, even if they have e-assist for uphills with a heavy bike and children aboard (and remember that one of our most beloved members uses such a bike), but not to allow anything that is primarily motor-powered. However, I’m not sure how we come up with a definition that would specifically cover this distinction.

I’m therefore putting out a poll. If you want to allow miles by certain bikes with electric power but not others, can you please put something in the comments about what definition you’d use? If you want to allow bicycles that are primarily motor-powered to count, can you please put something in the comments about what definition you would use to distinguish them from motorcycles (assuming you don’t want motorcycle miles to count for Freezing Saddles)?

Note that this question deals only with which miles count, not with who is permitted to enter Freezing Saddles. Someone who wants to be on the Bunch O’ Slackers, for example, can ride anything he or she wants (including a car), because the miles don’t count anyway. And if we rule out motor-powered vehicles, someone who primarily rides a motor-powered bicycle could still participate, but only the miles on non-motor-powered vehicles would count.

Topic

[ewilliams0305]

@cvcalhoun 129888 wrote:

Mine weighed 64 lbs., and did not have a motor. My belief that e-assist bikes should be allowed is not related to my having a bike that is in any way easy to ride.

While I kind of agree I have to say, I’m with rod, bring on the motors, ill still crush you! No bike is “easy” to ride when its 17deg out either. And for arguments sake, we all ride the bikes we choose to ride, the heavy ones tend to be more comfortable so there that. I’m really neither for or against it, I just want to keep the participation up. This is a slippery slope that leads to nothing but competitor’s with blond hair and blue eyes

[jrenaut]

I think we are reaching what passes for consensus. If you pedal it and it doesn’t take gas, it’s cool. If someone abuses an electric motor to win things in the contest, we can take care of that at the final happy hour. Let’s move on to the next argum… I mean calm discussion of the rules.

[sethpo]

Now that this is settled I can go buy this ELF and totally CRUSH #BAFS2016. Eat my photon exhaust, suckas.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dcusedicyclemarketplace/permalink/1720144014882853/

[cvcalhoun]

@sethpo 129966 wrote:

Now that this is settled I can go buy this ELF and totally CRUSH #BAFS2016. Eat me photon exhaust, suckas.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dcusedicyclemarketplace/permalink/1720144014882853/

ELF is definitely out!

[cvcalhoun]

@cvcalhoun 129867 wrote:

I started this poll to try to see if there was a consensus on the issue. However, I don’t intend to go strictly by the numbers here. Unless things change markedly between now and December 24, barring disagreement by my co-organizers, I’m inclined to call this in favor of allowing ebikes but not ELFs (Elves?), on the following basis:

• I don’t think we should be changing previous rules, in a way that would disqualify beloved veterans, without a solid consensus rather than a simple majority.
• The totals currently shown above don’t reflect the fact that three people have changed their votes from a complete ban to allowing ebikes but not ELFs, so the vote is in fact almost even.
• Everyone who has wanted to change a vote has done so in the direction of allowing ebikes, and has changed based on reading the discussion. This suggests to me that people who think and read more are likely in the pro-ebike camp, while some of the antis may just have voted on the poll without really reading.
• Those who ride ebikes are more directly affected by the decision than the rest of us are, so their votes should be given a bit more weight.

Amalitza has already indicated her intention to stay out of all decision-making. I’ll consult with Sunyata and Hozn, who have been the other organizers, and then just let Amalitza know what decisions have been made.

Although the poll hasn’t formally closed, I think that after 11 days and 15 pages, it’s time to call this one. While the organizers decided to act contrary to the (slight) majority in this instance for the reasons specified above, we certainly tried to take the overall discussion and poll into account in coming up with this year’s rules.1/ So, with the concurrence of hozn and Sunyata, and the abstention of Amalitza, here’s the verdict (which I will pass on to Amalitza for the sticky, although she need not include the footnotes): 2/

1. The ELF is not allowed. 3/
2. Miles in or on any vehicle which is incapable of being human-powered will not be counted. 4/
3. Miles in or on any vehicle, other than an ELF, which is capable of being human-powered (with or without e-assist) will be counted. 5/

1/ Let the record show that I abided by the results of the other two polls I did (on whether to let slackers use the regular registration form, and whether to have local teams), even though they were not what I would have preferred. If we’d had a real consensus here, I would have followed it.
2/ Sorry, I’m a lawyer, I can’t help speaking in footnotes.
3/ There may or may not be a pointless prize for the best, or cleverest, or most sardonic idea for why we exclude either the vehicle or its driver, but the decision is final.
4/ This would include cars (even Priuses! even ones driven in the Midwest without heat!), motorcycles, mopeds, Segways, hoverboards, teleport, etc. While we applaud any vehicle that saves energy and produces less in the way of toxic emissions than a normal car, not all of them are suitable for Freezing Saddles.
5/ This is true regardless of the number of wheels, weight of the vehicle, power of the motor, or medical or other condition of the rider. Upright bikes (with or without training wheels), recumbent bikes, tricycles, or your kid’s foot-powered scooter are all allowed. Unicycles are positively encouraged, if only for the amusement value.

[ShawnoftheDread]

Wait, I can sleaze ride a skateboard? This makes planning and packing for travel much easier.

[jopamora]

It has to be an e-assist board

[cvcalhoun]

@ShawnoftheDread 130102 wrote:

Wait, I can sleaze ride a skateboard? This makes planning and packing for travel much easier.

Yes, you can. If anyone doesn’t like that rule, s/he can contact next year’s troika, err, organizers!

@jopamora 130115 wrote:

It has to be an e-assist board

Reading comprehension FAIL! Of course, being a lawyer, I expect a lot of that.

[PotomacCyclist]

So Amtrak miles don’t count? I’m crushed.

(Actually, I haven’t even signed up, so disregard my posts. But I may be an occasional spectator and look at the leaderboard occasionally. That will be the extent of my participation. I’m just not a cold-weather person. Or a Strava person. Maybe someday before I retire.)

[sjclaeys]

@ShawnoftheDread 130102 wrote:

Wait, I can sleaze ride a skateboard? This makes planning and packing for travel much easier.

I think that an e-assist skateboard would work as well.

[cvcalhoun]

@sjclaeys 130138 wrote:

I think that an e-assist skateboard would work as well.

Yes, skateboards with or without e-assist are permitted. Although if I get many more questions regarding interpretation, I may have to assemble a beit din. And nobody wants that!

[Bruno Moore]

Hangon, hangon, hangon—does this mean that other Strava activities (ice skate, windsurf, roller ski, yoga, etc) can be counted? I think there’s a can of worms that I may just have to exploit at some point…

[cvcalhoun]

@Brünø Moore 130148 wrote:

Hangon, hangon, hangon—does this mean that other Strava activities (ice skate, windsurf, roller ski, yoga, etc) can be counted? I think there’s a can of worms that I may just have to exploit at some point…

Sigh! Yoga’s definitely out, because you need to have traveled to have anything recorded. (Remember, trainer miles don’t count, even if Strava counts them.) Windsurfing is out, because you’re not human powering it. For everything else, you must use your best judgment as to whether something is a “vehicle,” and is within the spirit of this contest. Attempts to exploit loopholes will be punished with public humiliation at the final happy hour.

[UnknownCyclist]

You should have seen it when I put my toddler in an e-assist stroller. She was scared s***less. It was priceless…

[Steve O]

Shouldn’t whatever conveyance is used have a “saddle?” That can freeze?

[Author]

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