eBikes and electric powered vehicles (including the Elf)
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This poll is intended only to guide the organizers in determining whether there is a consensus on the issue. No guarantees are made that we will follow the majority vote, if no actual consensus emerges.
Please read the discussion before voting. Three people so far have wanted to change their votes after reading the discussion. If this happens with you, please say so in a comment so that we can keep track.
Someone who uses an ELF (and considers it a bicycle) has now put in a registration. I’m assuming he plans to use the ELF for his miles. We therefore need to determine what vehicles are permitted to be counted in the competition.
My own inclination is to count miles by bikes that are primarily human powered, even if they have e-assist for uphills with a heavy bike and children aboard (and remember that one of our most beloved members uses such a bike), but not to allow anything that is primarily motor-powered. However, I’m not sure how we come up with a definition that would specifically cover this distinction.
I’m therefore putting out a poll. If you want to allow miles by certain bikes with electric power but not others, can you please put something in the comments about what definition you’d use? If you want to allow bicycles that are primarily motor-powered to count, can you please put something in the comments about what definition you would use to distinguish them from motorcycles (assuming you don’t want motorcycle miles to count for Freezing Saddles)?
Note that this question deals only with which miles count, not with who is permitted to enter Freezing Saddles. Someone who wants to be on the Bunch O’ Slackers, for example, can ride anything he or she wants (including a car), because the miles don’t count anyway. And if we rule out motor-powered vehicles, someone who primarily rides a motor-powered bicycle could still participate, but only the miles on non-motor-powered vehicles would count.
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woah woah woah there SteveO. Dude. I’m pretty sure I didn’t volunteer to make any actual decisions this year. I volunteered to document the decisions other people make in a centralized and easily accessible location.
wishy-washy and decision free, here.@Amalitza 129863 wrote:
woah woah woah there SteveO. Dude. I’m pretty sure I didn’t volunteer to make any actual decisions this year. I volunteered to document the decisions other people make in a centralized and easily accessible location.
wishy-washy and decision free, here.That’s why I did’t volunteer, when I retired I gave up the responsibility of making decisions that affect other people’s lives. Of course living in Kyiv doesn’t help either. 😎
@Raymo853 129850 wrote:
This should have never been a thread or a poll, it should have been a decision without any consideration of whom types the loudest. We all know on this issue, plus many more, there can never be a consensus or even an accommodation.
@Steve O 129854 wrote:
Agreed. Freezing Saddles is not a democracy nor a dictatorship, nor really any easily definable structure. It probably most closely resembles organizing a game of freeze tag on the grade-school playground.
In the end, decision-making is made by those who have stepped up to volunteer and make the decisions. It is good that cvc and sunyata and amalitza, etc. listen to the rest of us, but since they have volunteered to take care of registration and member management, the rest of us have essentially deferred to them to do the best they can. I like that cvc has taken these polls and opened these threads for discussion; she didn’t have to.
@Amalitza 129863 wrote:
woah woah woah there SteveO. Dude. I’m pretty sure I didn’t volunteer to make any actual decisions this year. I volunteered to document the decisions other people make in a centralized and easily accessible location.
wishy-washy and decision free, here.I started this poll to try to see if there was a consensus on the issue. However, I don’t intend to go strictly by the numbers here. Unless things change markedly between now and December 24, barring disagreement by my co-organizers, I’m inclined to call this in favor of allowing ebikes but not ELFs (Elves?), on the following basis:
- I don’t think we should be changing previous rules, in a way that would disqualify beloved veterans, without a solid consensus rather than a simple majority.
- The totals currently shown above don’t reflect the fact that three people have changed their votes from a complete ban to allowing ebikes but not ELFs, so the vote is in fact almost even.
- Everyone who has wanted to change a vote has done so in the direction of allowing ebikes, and has changed based on reading the discussion. This suggests to me that people who think and read more are likely in the pro-ebike camp, while some of the antis may just have voted on the poll without really reading.
- Those who ride ebikes are more directly affected by the decision than the rest of us are, so their votes should be given a bit more weight.
Amalitza has already indicated her intention to stay out of all decision-making. I’ll consult with Sunyata and Hozn, who have been the other organizers, and then just let Amalitza know what decisions have been made.
@ewilliams0305 129886 wrote:
Lets just make things simple, does it have a saddle? Is it freezing? If your A$$ is frozen than your well qualified to play. I doubt an elf has a saddle??? Oh shoot, I just caused more problems, any recumbent bikes here:)
Either way #oneLessCar
P.S.
Let the record state that my bike last year weighed apx 50lbs for the duration of the contestMine weighed 64 lbs., and did not have a motor. My belief that e-assist bikes should be allowed is not related to my having a bike that is in any way easy to ride.
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