My Morning Commute

[huskerdont]

@mstone 180713 wrote:

The feedback I hear from pedestrians is that regardless of what cyclists think, it’s not often easy to understand spoken calls, and they just come across as some guy shouting at them. In the worst case, they’ll stop and turn toward the cyclist to figure out what the shouting is about. (In one well-known fatal cyclist/pedestrian collision in the region, that was exactly what’s understood to have happened.) For cyclists “in the culture” called passes are intelligible because the cyclists already know what calls are likely and are able to predict a message without fully hearing and processing it. A pedestrian who’s familiar with calls on trails will start to do the same thing, but someone hearing it for the first time cannot. Of course, the more you try to say, the more likely even an experienced pedestrian (especially one who’s hard of hearing) will have to puzzle over the message if it’s not immediately predictable and unconsciously classified. Someone with hearing difficulty will also instinctively try to look at the person speaking to see their lips, likely stopping and turning toward them…

I’m all for being polite, but reserve words for when it’s possible to use a normal conversational voice. (Speed differential permitting, opportunity for the person to actually acknowledge, etc.)

I’ve had the exact opposite experience. Bells alarm some people and may cause them to jump left, and I’ve talked to pedestrians who feel the the bell means “get out of my way.” (In truth, I’ve talked to some cyclists who seem to think that too.) Whereas a “passing on your left” usually gets the job done except in the case of some tourists. I try to judge whether to use the bell or my voice in each particular instance, with differing results.

Giving a warning of any kind is merely a polite convention that is not practiced everywhere, and anyone unaware of the convention is going to be unaware of what’s meant at first, whether the sound is a bell or a voice.

[mstone]

@huskerdont 180715 wrote:

I’ve had the exact opposite experience. Bells alarm some people and may cause them to jump left, and I’ve talked to pedestrians who feel the the bell means “get out of my way.”[/quote]
Yup. The difference is, you can typically start dinging a heck of a lot farther back than you can start shouting, so they can get the jumping out of their system before you get too close. That also helps with the fear factor, as unless you’ve got some kind of airhorn, the sound of a bicycle bell dozens of feet away is generally not threatening. (I completely agree that when someone comes right up behind you and starts dinging away like a fire engine it is unsettling at best. I suggest something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY1hdYiJUCQ and not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeRNZygFHh8 )

Mostly though, this isn’t an “experience” thing, I’m just trying to communicate to cyclists who think they’re loud and intelligible that to a person with less than perfect hearing, they really are not.

Quote:

Giving a warning of any kind is merely a polite convention

Actually, no–it’s a legal requirement in many jurisdictions. For example, the virginia code says, “A person riding a bicycle,[…] on a sidewalk or shared-use path or across a roadway on a crosswalk shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing any pedestrian.” If you don’t signal and there’s a collision, guess who’s at fault? So even if some people get really annoyed about signalling, I’ll do it for reasons of self-preservation regardless. (I also think it’s common sense, but that’s a different question.)

[huskerdont]

@mstone 180716 wrote:

Actually, no–it’s a legal requirement in many jurisdictions. For example, the virginia code says, “A person riding a bicycle,[…] on a sidewalk or shared-use path or across a roadway on a crosswalk shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing any pedestrian.” So if you don’t signal and there’s a collision, guess who’s at fault? So even if some people get really annoyed about signalling, I’ll do it for reasons of self-preservation regardless. (I also think it’s common sense, but that’s a different question.)

Yes it’s also more than a convention where it is legally required. The point I was trying to make and did so imperfectly is that it’s not practiced everywhere so is not universally understood. I wish it were.

[mstone]

@huskerdont 180717 wrote:

Yes it’s also more than a convention where it is legally required. The point I was trying to make and did so imperfectly is that it’s not practiced everywhere so is not universally understood. I wish it were.

Yes, and it’s likely that some (many?) of the people who misinterpret either a bell or a call have had negative experiences with real a-holes who actually did want them to jump out of the way. All we can do is model proper behavior and try to change perceptions/experiences. But, understand that someone can try to change my perception of a bike bell by using it correctly, but they cannot make it easier for me to process spoken language that I have trouble hearing and can’t use visual cues to clarify; one outcome is an achievable goal everyone can work toward, the other is not.

[PeteD]

@dkel 180670 wrote:

I think it’s cultural rather than practical, and the need for calling passes is based on the lack of consistent behavior (in this country) on the MUPs.

Having braved the trail this Labour day Monday with my family for a 2 mile hike from West to Lee and Back (which had *SO MANY* BA flybys…), I came away with the following observations as a Cyclist endavouring to walk on the W&OD:

1) Not calling passes is a non-discriminatory effort. Cyclists of all makes and models didn’t call passes.
2) Also, the same ratio of non-calls exists for runners / joggers.
3) New to me: Most high speed bikes can be heard for several seconds before the pass, whether it be tire/road resistance, or fancy Chris King hubs. The low speed well-maintained hybrid on skinny tires is much harder to hear. Poorly maintained bikes of all styles can be discerned by their squeaky chains.
4) Same goes for high speed runners, instead of the woosh of tire resistance, it’s the inhaling and exhaling that you notice first. And pair-runners you get a good 10-15 seconds of eavesdropping before they run out of earshot.
5) Bells are nice, but one cannot gauge the distance to interaction; several times bells were rung for people behind me and I misinterpreted the ring for a passing of me. It’s a nice notification but generally one is unsure what the velocity of the cyclist will be.
6) For an un-impeded eardrum, vocally called passes were appreciated as it lent rise to an immediacy of the pass. Again while a bell would signify (most often that not) that a pass was going to happen at some point in time in the near future, a vocal call-out lent creedence to the immediacy of the pass.
7) The reason why pedestrians acknowledge the pass (usually with a nicely extended left hand into the passing lane unfortunately): an encoraging “Thank You” after the ack. (Go Go TCP/IP)
I did notice that folks on skinny tires were more likely to shoot-the-gap rather than wait for oncoming traffic to clear before making a pass than their wider-tired brethren. Might be the width of the handlebars have something to do with that, or they were just more impatient or more confident of their skills than those on a slow roll.

What I learned? Nothing really, other than it was a really hot day to decide to walk 2 miles.

[mstone]

@PeteD 180721 wrote:

I did notice that folks on skinny tires were more likely to shoot-the-gap rather than wait for oncoming traffic to clear before making a pass than their wider-tired brethren. Might be the width of the handlebars have something to do with that, or they were just more impatient or more confident of their skills than those on a slow roll.

That’s a very nice way of saying “a-hole”

Quote:

What I learned? Nothing really, other than it was a really hot day to decide to walk 2 miles.

Also, the W&OD generally sucks for hiking. God forbid any shrubberies block the sunlight on the power lines.

[huskerdont]

Also, our dog absolutely cowers when he hears a bike bell. I mean, he shakes like a leaf for 15 minutes. The neighbor’s kids hit their bike bells in the street and the dog will start shaking on the couch. I think an MUP is a lousy place to walk a dog anyway, but the bells make it right out, and I’m getting an anti-bell bias myself now too. I find them more startling than a voice, so I find that I mostly use my voice anymore except in high-noise situations like along 66 near W&L high school. YMMV, so of course do what you think is best.

[lordofthemark]

Another reason to call your passes. This morning, I was making my usual turn from the NB MVT onto the 14th Street bridge. As I usually do, I stretched my left arm out to signal my turn. A fast quiet guy on a road bike chose that moment to pass me on the left without ringing or calling. As the Duke of Wellington said about Waterloo “It was a damned nice (IE close) thing” He passed inches from my hand.

Do I need to look back to check for passing bikes before signalling a left?

[semperiden]

I run sometimes on the MVT and have found that bells, no matter the distance, startle me. Even though I know to expect them, I still feel uneasy about them. I prefer the “on your left” call instead. It might be that they are less audible, but while cycling, they don’t startle me at all.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@lordofthemark 180743 wrote:

Another reason to call your passes. This morning, I was making my usual turn from the NB MVT onto the 14th Street bridge. As I usually do, I stretched my left arm out to signal my turn. A fast quiet guy on a road bike chose that moment to pass me on the left without ringing or calling. As the Duke of Wellington said about Waterloo “It was a damned nice (IE close) thing” He passed inches from my hand.

Do I need to look back to check for passing bikes before signalling a left?

at that particular intersection, I always check behind before signaling and then making the left turn.

[huskerdont]

@lordofthemark 180743 wrote:

Do I need to look back to check for passing bikes before signalling a left?

I don’t think you should have to, but looks like it’s necessary, times being what they are. Bonus is that if there’s no one there, then you don’t even need to stick your arm out.

[ginacico]

@lordofthemark 180743 wrote:

Do I need to look back to check for passing bikes before signalling a left?

I’ve had exactly the same thing happen, at the same place.

I don’t think you should have to, either. As drivers, we signal a left turn and assume everyone behind us will stay in the lane and let us peel off. Cyclists who think they’re entitled to pass without an audible signal, though, make it necessary to check behind before making a left. I’d rather do that than get in a wreck with some idiot.

[Subby]

I’m worried that the dude driving the opposite direction from me on Georgetown Pike this morning at 6:20am was not able to properly hear my witty rejoinder to his “get off the road” admonition. So just in case you stumble upon this board searching for answers, what I replied was…”fuck you”.

Boom. Roasted. Here is some Neosporin for that burn, etc..

#fightme

[Brendan von Buckingham]

In Arlington, I call this week the Angriest Week of the Year. So I like to chill out by pretending. This morning I pretended I was a cowboy driving the orneriest bunch of steers this side of Wichita.

[Brett L.]

@lordofthemark 180743 wrote:

Another reason to call your passes. This morning, I was making my usual turn from the NB MVT onto the 14th Street bridge. As I usually do, I stretched my left arm out to signal my turn. A fast quiet guy on a road bike chose that moment to pass me on the left without ringing or calling. As the Duke of Wellington said about Waterloo “It was a damned nice (IE close) thing” He passed inches from my hand.

Do I need to look back to check for passing bikes before signalling a left?

Here’s my take on it, and this may not be an appropriate position but whatever – eff that jerk. If this were a road, each side of the trail would be consider a single lane each direction. The jerk passed you at an intersection with no warning. I would not consider you liable for slowing, making a signal and proceeding when clear of oncoming traffic. It is the traffic behind you responsibility to not hit you when overtaking you. This is not a lane change where you are entering a lane occupied by a different vehicle. It is the responsibility of the vehicle behind to yield.

[Author]

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