eBikes and electric powered vehicles (including the Elf)

[mstone]

@jrenaut 129602 wrote:

I did a trailer for a while until the kids outgrew it, then went longtail. The trailer is much better at red lights because the two wheels support the lateral weight. The longtail is better moving because you’re just pulling weight, not dealing with weight plus flex in the plastic connector and extra rolling resistance from two extra tires. The longtail is tougher on your upper body, too – your shoulders get a workout keeping it upright – but overall, I find the longtail easier. YMMV.

I think it’s easier if you stun the children first so they don’t move around so much. An electronic device of some sort will serve the purpose.

[Tim Kelley]

@hozn 129639 wrote:

As rcannon100 has pointed out in the past, FS was never intended to be a cycling advocacy tool.

I don’t disagree at all.

This isn’t pertinent to the larger conversation, but I want to point out that FS is grassroots bike culture, which in a way is cycling advocacy. Especially since it gets people riding bikes during the winter when they likely might not have in the past. It warms my heart to see everyone bickering back and forth over on the forum, which was created 6 years ago as advocacy tool.

[lordofthemark]

I am not sure about the ebike thing (allow only for people who have actually shlepped their kids in them? Only when the kids are actually in them? I dunno – I do think FS is both an athletic competition, and also an advocacy tool, and that requires case by case, maybe arbitrary decisions by the community)

But I am damn sure no vehicle with built in all around protection against the elements should be involved. I mean even bar mitts is stretching it a bit, but they at least only provide limited protection.

[mstone]

@lordofthemark 129647 wrote:

I mean even bar mitts is stretching it a bit, but they at least only provide limited protection.

Really, if you’re not riding naked it’s a cop-out.

[SolarBikeCar]

Obviously most of you have never seen an ELF or you wouldn’t make silly comments claiming it is enclosed. You might get away with claiming it is partially enclosed much like a carport is partially enclosed. Still a carport is hardly a heated garage.

If this is serious athletic competition will there be drug testing? If not, how do you prevent doping. If competitors get a Starbucks enroute that should disqualify, right?

I figured if my presence generates such visceral contempt it would be a good motivator. It got Rod all pumped up for his epic. The prizes are “pointless” so I couldn’t care less, but putting rubber on the [snowy] road while you all bicker about who’s in and who’s out is priceless.

-enjoy

[bobco85]

@mstone 129640 wrote:

I think it’s easier if you stun the children first so they don’t move around so much. An electronic device of some sort will serve the purpose.

For some reason, the first thing that came to mind was this situation:

• You are riding an electric cargo bike/bakfiets/bike with trailer with a child squirming/screaming/etc. which is messing up your balance and/or annoying you
• You push a special button
• A miniature cattle prod extends out of the back of the bike and shocks the child into a calmer state
• Robotic voice then states, “Child neutralized”
• The remainder of your ride is pleasant

On a more thread-related note, I’m cool with electric assist as long as the cyclist is doing some work to pedal and power the bike. To echo other posters, the point of Freezing Saddles is to get out there and continue biking during the toughest months of the year in this area.

[dkel]

@SolarBikeCar 129649 wrote:

I figured if my presence generates such visceral contempt it would be a good motivator. It got Rod all pumped up for his epic.

Rod was already pumped up for his epic. The thought of crushing you while doing it just sweetened the deal.

[peterw_diy]

@sjclaeys 129623 wrote:

When I am effortlessly passed by an ebike while pushing against the wind on the MVT or going up a hill on the Custis, then, yeah, I think that there is a fairness issue

Gotcha. Personally my experience is that electric cargo bike interactions far outnumber electric commuter bike interactions, and I’ve not yet seen one of those sort speedy cheater road bikes. But that makes sense.

[lordofthemark]

@SolarBikeCar 129649 wrote:

If this is serious athletic competition

It is a fun athletic competition. An athletic competition for people who would never enter a serious bike competition (as well as a few who would) It ain’t the Tour de France, or even the Air Force Cycling Classic, but it sure is about testing and stretching what we can do physically.

[jabberwocky]

I propose we allow them and come up with a massive overly complicated formula to determine how their miles should be modified. My proposal:

(150/motor power in watts)*([cargo weight in pounds+50]/75)

So someone with a 250 watt motor hauling around 100 pounds of kids would get:
(150/250)*((100+50)/75)=1.2 points per mile.

Someone riding their 750 watt ebike with no cargo would get:
(150/750)*((0+50)/75)=0.133 points per mile.

Note: tongue in cheek

[Tania]

@lordofthemark 129654 wrote:

It is a fun athletic competition. An athletic competition for people who would never enter a serious bike competition (as well as a few who would) It ain’t the Tour de France, or even the Air Force Cycling Classic, but it sure is about testing and stretching what we can do physically.

Pretty sure solarbikedude was being facetious when he asked if it was a serious competition…

[worktheweb]

I’m all for people riding bikes as much as possible.

The challenge as I see it is that there are points awarded based on mileage and when you’ve got an electric assist or can run in moped mode that mileage is pretty much meaningless. The competition is a lot of fun, and part of that is the playful rivalries that happen as people push themselves to ride more in conditions that send most people inside heated conveyances.

While I don’t want to turn people away, allowing the miles/points to be “easy” fundamentally changes the dynamic. When you’re pedaling, you really have to think about how you dress — too much and you sweat and get super cold, too little you get super cold anyway. If you can just switch on a motor, you can dress so warmly that you might as well be in a car. If you’ve got a fairing that keeps the rain off you that is another benefit that makes the miles for that day easy.

Perhaps an asterisk team would solve the issue. Not a part of the general population leaderboards but off on their own able to compare on a level playing field. Still part of the community and part of the fun. My favorite part of FS last year was all the great friends I made. I look forward to meeting even more of you this year, regardless of what powers your wheels. I don’t think we should be stopping the camaraderie that makes the competition so wonderful, but we also don’t want to make the competition meaningless. Not an easy line to walk.

[lordofthemark]

@Tania 129660 wrote:

Pretty sure solarbikedude was being facetious when he asked if it was a serious competition…

I am pretty sure he was trolling, but my preferred response to such things (when I am not up for the proper response of ignoring) is to respond directly and as calmly as possible.

[83b]

Perhaps those of us on ebikes (particularly those using them because they’re slackers, not because they have special mini-me cargo to transport) who are taking part just to enjoy the fun and camaraderie could make an offering at the alter of athletic achievement. Do a little something to recognize those who excel at the athletic competition aspect of the thing.

I was thinking maybe special Pointless Prizes for the top riders who take the most KOMs over the course of the competition (measured by KOMs after the annual reset)? They could be awarded with the finest ales and pastries in all the land, in the hopes of upsetting their strict diet and training regimens and bringing them back into contact with the mere mortals.

[hozn]

I think this underscores the need to have a category of “bystanders” (aka “slackers team”) that is generally open for the community (pointless prizes, photos, etc.) — not exclusive to previous contenders — but not contributing to leaderboards.

I realize the Slackers question has already been asked and under, though. Maybe revisit for 2017.

[Author]

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