ELF pedal electric car on W&OD

[Vicegrip]

@GovernorSilver 127381 wrote:

Somebody needs to catch him on video doing that. Should help shoot down any case he might have for legally operating what I content is not a “bicycle” but is really a car on bike trails. :rolleyes:

That and on his website he talks about “driving” the Elf on the trail. Bike, Bent, Trike, Tandem, box bike, e-box-bike, whatever, we ride. Elf is driven. He also updates his ride data and the one I saw had him doing avg of 20 mph topping out at 33 mph. He is his own worst enemy on this.
@Amalitza 127387 wrote:

Well, I should have paid attention to this sentiment and avoided reading his website. It’s now surprisingly difficult to be objective about the pedal-car-thingy — which really is a pretty cool thingy, though it certainly sounds way too big for sidewalks and trails. I haven’t seen it in person, but 5’1” high and a lane’s-width wide is pretty big even for the W&OD, which is luxuriously wide, straight, and uncrowded as compared to, say the MVT and Custis.

The IHRT, another wide, straight, uncrowded trail that I ride frequently, often has gas-powered 4-wheel maintenance vehicles on it. My estimate is about the size that’s been described for the ELF, maybe a bit wider, but definitely less than 5 ft high. They are usually not a problem to navigate around, but they are being driven by trail crew who drive them as interlopers, not trail users– they drive slowly, squished off to one side, keep an eye out for bikes and slow even further or often stop while we pass them. Oh, and you can see over them. One of the guys who started out there last winter didn’t do such a great job of that at first– for the first few months, he tended to drive like a trail user just taking up whatever space and moving at whatever speed he felt like, and it could be uncomfortable getting by him. He eventually got the hang of it, but I wouldn’t want to deal with just a random person driving a similar sized vehicle the same way people typically ride bikes. Certainly not at 20+ mph, and tall enough you can’t see over and around them.

It shouldn’t, though, really. Any case for whether or not pedal-car-thingies should be allowed on the trail should not be based upon whether the first local person to try it happens to be a self-entitled, empathy-impaired douchecanoe. If that were the case, none of us* would ever be allowed to go anywhere.

*”us” = “people”, not “cyclists”, “trail-users” or what have you

Agree that it is OK to have trucks and the like doing work. I like the idea of folks getting around in Elf like things. Great idea to have a car that you can get around in and park it in the sun to recharge. For use on the trails I simply thought “What would it look like if there were many?” Two Elfs doing 20 mph passing each other East/West on the W&OD? Good luck. Bikes pass each other without hesitation all day long. Anything moving along needs a certain amount of wobble room during the normal actions of riding or driving along. The Elf has none except into the oncoming lane. This alone is enough to consider it an unacceptable risk to others. Getting hit by a 190 pound “bike” and a 170 pound “rider” moving at 20+mph would be an almost car like impact. Add in that there is not enough room to give 3 feet for passing and you now have a far larger than normal vehicle passing you in tight conditions. I think we should make a network of much wider paved paths that connect our homes to our work and other places that the Elf can safely use without risk to others. We can call them “Roads”

I will bet that this will come to some sort of conclusion.

[Raymo853]

@Tim Kelley 127378 wrote:

Let us know if you hear back from your comment on his page!

It appears the comments section has been disabled by the page owner.

[Raymo853]

@Vicegrip 127404 wrote:

conclusion.

Conclusion or contusion?

Did a little Google stalking of this guy:
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/edward-myers/11/207/495

I also screen captured a lot of his website, assuming he may be advised to take it down in the future. If he hits someone, hope their counsel will contact me for copies.

I am writing this here so I won’t do it: I so want to go out and find him driving on the WO&D, maybe Wed Nov 11th when I have the day off. Would have fun holding him to a speed of 10 mph over and over.

I hope someone gets him via a GoPro texting, swiping on Tinder, etc on an iPad while driving.

[jabberwocky]

@Raymo853 127408 wrote:

I also screen captured a lot of his website, assuming he may be advised to take it down in the future. If he hits someone, hope their counsel will contact me for copies.

I had this thought yesterday while perusing his site. He’s documenting the fact that he rides on trails where motorized vehicles are banned. Hell, he has a whole section devoted to “the people in charge say I can’t ride there, but I disagree and am doing it anyway”. He even posts ride data where he’s averaging 22-23mph (he says that includes stops, which would make his trail speeds extremely fast). He documents (in detail!) his speed mods.

If he hits someone and they decide to sue him, his web page is going to be an attorneys wet dream.

[Mongo]

@Raymo853 127408 wrote:

Conclusion or contusion?

Concussion!

[Vicegrip]

@jabberwocky 127409 wrote:

I had this thought yesterday while perusing his site. He’s documenting the fact that he rides on trails where motorized vehicles are banned. Hell, he has a whole section devoted to “the people in charge say I can’t ride there, but I disagree and am doing it anyway”. He even posts ride data where he’s averaging 22-23mph (he says that includes stops, which would make his trail speeds extremely fast). He documents (in detail!) his speed mods.

If he hits someone and they decide to sue him, his web page is going to be an attorneys wet dream.

If I recall he logs his drives to map my ride or the like. Could look at the trail portion of his drive to see what speeds he hits in his 190 pound, modified beyond the Federal legal definition of a bicycle, device.

Someone should let the people that make the Elf know that he is out making friends all over in one.

[Tim Kelley]

@Vicegrip 127422 wrote:

Someone should let the people that make the Elf know that he is out making friends all over in one.

Raymo has been tweeting at them.

[Raymo853]

@Tim Kelley 127423 wrote:

Raymo has been tweeting at them.

https://twitter.com/Raymo853/status/662338494908469248

No reply of course. Now if it was retweeted or refined and retweeted, they might respond.

[Tim Kelley]

@Raymo853 127456 wrote:

https://twitter.com/Raymo853/status/662338494908469248

No reply of course.

Or they haven’t been online in the past 3 days?

[PotomacCyclist]

Do FABB and WABA know about this guy, officially? Neighborhood groups too, including non-cycling groups. I would think that walkers, runners, roller bladers and casual trail users would also be concerned about this. If other groups know about the problem, there will be more pressure on this guy to change his behavior. While it’s also good to document the admissions on his website, I’d rather see him alter his behavior before he injures someone.

[dasgeh]

@PotomacCyclist 127462 wrote:

Do FABB and WABA know about this guy, officially?

I wouldn’t want WABA to step in here, because it sets a bad precedent. WABA is simply not responsible for the behavior of individual cyclists (except maybe their staff).

[PotomacCyclist]

I don’t think WABA should get involved with enforcement, but I think they can play a role in safety awareness. I see this situation as similar to an unmarked hazard on a trail, a specific hazard that is also connected to a larger issue. For surface hazards, the larger issues are maintenance and warnings. For this situation, the issues are the use of a mini car-like vehicle and ongoing danger to other trail users.

Re the average speed and top speeds, it might be helpful to clarify the details. Some regular cyclists approach 30 mph on long straightaways on certain trails (and roads), especially on downhill sections. So while 33 mph is notable, it’s good to compare that to the behavior of other trail users on those sections. Is that top speed a result of the vehicle, or the nature of that section of the trail? I’m not trying to defend him. I’m just trying to tighten up the use of that guy’s data. If the 33 mph number is used against him, it could also be used against non-motorized cyclists.

Same thing with the average speed numbers. I’m not on Strava so I don’t know how the data compares to what some of the faster cyclists are also doing on those trails. As most of us know, some regular cyclists ride at very fast speeds on local trails. The details matter because some complaints could be turned against cyclists in general.

[Steve O]

@PotomacCyclist 127478 wrote:

So while 33 mph is notable, it’s good to compare that to the behavior of other trail users on those sections. Is that top speed a result of the vehicle, or the nature of that section of the trail? I’m not trying to defend him. I’m just trying to tighten up the use of that guy’s data. If the 33 mph number is used against him, it could also be used against non-motorized cyclists.

From his website:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10044[/ATTACH]

And from TK’s Strava:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]10045[/ATTACH]

[ShawnoftheDread]

Tim Kelly’s bigger than that car, too.

[PotomacCyclist]

S.H.I.E.L.D. is already investigating Tim Kelley, because of this:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]10046[/ATTACH]

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