ELF pedal electric car on W&OD

[OneEighth]

Hang on, I was just getting all hopeful about putting pedals on my motorcycle so I can get out of that inconvenient evening rush thing. I was even going to assure you all that, as a regular bicyclist, I’d be all well behaved, considerate and whatnot.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@OneEighth 127877 wrote:

Hang on, I was just getting all hopeful about putting pedals on my motorcycle so I can get out of that inconvenient evening rush thing. I was even going to assure you all that, as a regular bicyclist, I’d be all well behaved, considerate and whatnot.

You’d even have lights, and a horn to call your passes. I approve, particularly since I’m back in the market for a motorcycle.

[OneEighth]

@TwoWheelsDC 127879 wrote:

You’d even have lights, and a horn to call your passes. I approve, particularly since I’m back in the market for a motorcycle.

Awesome. We could slowly CAT 6 on the trail!

[SolarBikeCar]

The distinction between drive and ride is really tortured and not helpful to the discussion.
e.g: I ride a Harley.
I drive to the basket for a 2-pointer.
I drive cattle.
I ride a steer.

Before purchasing an ELF I did my homework. I studied the laws regulating vehicles on roads and multi-use paths and the rules for the W&OD. I won’t dispute that motorized vehicles from Moped on up are prohibited from use of the path. However, Virginia Code permits electric assist bicycles on any public multi use path that permits bicycles with the exception of scenic wilderness paths. Since Virginia is a Dillon state, local jurisdictions including park services are not permitted to enact and enforce rules not explicitly delegated by the legislature.

My office colleague made the astute observation that the conflict seems to be less with the parameters of the vehicle and more with aesthetics: the damn thing looks too much like a car. He facetiously suggested that I put a tail on the back of the elf and a horse head on top and “gallop” down the trail and then everyone could be happy again.

I get it that after fighting for space on roads and feeling vulnerable a cyclist finds solace and a feeling of empowerment as top-dog on a bike trail. That feeling evaporates a bit when rubbing shoulders with what looks kinda like an automobile. Likewise, many drivers feel that after giving up space
on roads for cyclists that they are uncomfortably vulnerable on sidewalks when required to share that space with bicycles. We all wish we had more space that was exclusively ours.

I have modified my driving style over time to address concerns about width and to honor the 3ft rule. I now ride the left tire 16″ to the right of the yellow line instead of on it. That places the right tire on the edge of a 5 foot path. Any wobble is less likely to cross the line but more likely to slip off the asphalt and onto the adjacent trail. I initially feared slipping off the edge would be troublesome but it turned out not to be a problem at all. I fold in the left mirror and use the right mirror and a smaller blind spot mirror to keep an eye on what is behind me.

If I encounter trail users who don’t give me 16″ of buffer on their side of the yellow line (note the math does work out for two elfs to pass and obey the 3 ft rule on regulation sized paths) I take advantage of the gravel path that bike and pedestrians use on the right side to move the Elf an additional 18″ to the right to maintain a 3ft buffer.

Initially I used longer stretches of the W&OD but as I developed alternative routes to shorten my ride, I have eliminated some segments and hope to eliminate more. This discussion may simply prepare everyone for the next ELF that wonders onto the trail.

[dasgeh]

SolarBikeCar – I’m glad you’re here. Welcome. Thanks for engaging in conversation and responding to what you see.

Look, I ride ebikes and big bikes and funny looking bikes. I get that not everyone rides a traditional bike, and I personally think that’s a good thing. I also don’t ride out in the Reston-Herdon area.

One thing I’ve learned from being the odd duck in the wild is that everyone is looking at you. People notice what you’re riding, and remember seeing you. When you’re courteous and pleasant and smiling, people think “wow, that chick riding the crazy bike with streamers is having so much fun.” If you’re having a bad day and it shows, people have a different take away. And if you cut someone off, passed too closely, scared someone, seemed to be going really fast, it quickly escalates to Elfs (Elves? Elvii?) should be banned from the trail.

I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s reality. If no one had had a negative interaction with you on the trail, there wouldn’t be these complaints. When you’re skating on thin ice about the permissability of you being in the space, the best way to keep being allowed to be there might just be to do your best to not make anyone mad you’re there. Just food for thought.

[mstone]

@SolarBikeCar 127908 wrote:

Before purchasing an ELF I did my homework. I studied the laws regulating vehicles on roads and multi-use paths and the rules for the W&OD. I won’t dispute that motorized vehicles from Moped on up are prohibited from use of the path. However, Virginia Code permits electric assist bicycles on any public multi use path that permits bicycles with the exception of scenic wilderness paths. Since Virginia is a Dillon state, local jurisdictions including park services are not permitted to enact and enforce rules not explicitly delegated by the legislature.

Park authorities act (Code of VA § 15.2-5700 through 5714) gives park authorities the right to regulate use of land and facilities, and to enact rules and regulations concerning the use of properties.

[dplasters]

@mstone 127920 wrote:

Park authorities act (Code of VA § 15.2-5700 through 5714) gives park authorities the right to regulate use of land and facilities, and to enact rules and regulations concerning the use of properties.

Given the stance on his website and also the tone in this thread, I don’t think you will be changing his mind through some legal argument. Short of the NVRPA physically enforcing his removal from the trail, he seems pretty likely to continue to be a user of the trail. This might as well be a missed connections thread, watching people talking past each other. I’m unaware of who at NVRPA would be the person to contact. But they probably don’t lurk around here.

I’d wager he is about as open to the idea of not using the trail as other trail users are open to the idea that it is safe for him to use the trail. Nothing he says is going to make you think its safe and nothing you say is going to convince him its unsafe.

Lets all go pedal a less than four wheeled vehicle? At least then you’ll be happy and forget about him.

[Lt. Dan]

@mstone 127920 wrote:

Park authorities act (Code of VA § 15.2-5700 through 5714) gives park authorities the right to regulate use of land and facilities, and to enact rules and regulations concerning the use of properties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJxCdh1Ps48

[Rod Smith]

He’s riding for Jesus though.

[dkel]

@Rod Smith 127929 wrote:

He’s riding for Jesus though.

Yeah, I know Jesus, and I’m pretty sure Jesus doesn’t need his help.

[dkel]

@dplasters 127922 wrote:

Given the stance on his website and also the tone in this thread, I don’t think you will be changing his mind through some legal argument.

This! Dude’s cornered the market on creative legal interpretation. Still…

§ 46.2-100. Definitions.
“Shared-use path” means a bikeway that is physically separated from motorized vehicular traffic by an open space or barrier and is located either within the highway right-of-way or within a separate right-of-way. Shared-use paths may also be used by pedestrians, skaters, users of wheel chairs or wheel chair conveyances, joggers, and other nonmotorized users.

Says “nonmotorized users.” You may or may not be a bike, bro, but you are definitely motorized. And really, @SolarBikeCar—don’t bother responding to this post, because I don’t care.

[Raymo853]

I fear the reaction may be something like this, which will cause problems for people in wheelchairs and dual child baby buggies.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10084[/ATTACH]

And of course, after I sell an idea I got to Google or Bing, I plan to go get an Optibike R11 and go out hunting Strava Segment KOMs from here to the death climb in the SM100

You should notice, an owner of the 40 mph Optibike, testified about his trip from Pittsburgh to Cumberland on the GAP.

[dkel]

@Raymo853 127936 wrote:

the 40 mph Optibike

E-bikes have a definite speed limit in Virginia: “§ 46.2-908.1. Electric personal assistive mobility devices, electrically powered toy vehicles, and electric power-assisted bicycles. No person shall at any time or at any location drive an electric personal assistive mobility device, or an electric power-assisted bicycle faster than twenty-five miles per hour.” I’m sure @SolarBikeCar has a well-reasoned explanation as to how that doesn’t apply to him.

[Anonymous]

@dplasters 127922 wrote:

Nothing he says is going to make you think its safe and nothing you say is going to convince him its unsafe.

There actually might have been things he could have said to make me think it’s safe. I haven’t seen the thing in person, I don’t have a fully-formed opinion on it, and I’m generally somewhat open to the idea of small, low-speed, electric-powered vehicles on some trails (ie, WOD west of Reston and MVT at gravelly are not the same). Instead, he dug himself deeper and deeper w/ every post. Deliberately mis-paraphrasing legal code to change the meaning. “oh, well, if I disable this safety device made necessary by the particular characteristics of my vehicle (fold up the mirrors) then I’m not as wide as you claim”. The horse thing is what really did me in, though. And then he repeated it!! Because OMG and WTF?? Of course it would not be safe or acceptable to GALLOP your horse at 20-30 mph along the W&OD!!! or in public pedestrian spaces in general!!! And if anybody were to ever do so– certainly if they were doing so twice daily commuting to and from work– they would create just as much opposition (probably a lot more) than what he has drawn to himself here. Though, really, all of that still doesn’t necessarily convince me the ELF is safe or unsafe, it just convinces me the guy is unsafe. And that I hope he doesn’t have access to horses.

[SolarBikeCar]

@mstone 127920 wrote:

Park authorities act (Code of VA § 15.2-5700 through 5714) gives park authorities the right to regulate use of land and facilities, and to enact rules and regulations concerning the use of properties.

…subject to the requirement that a Park Authority can not create rules that conflict with the Commonwealth (see § 15.2-5704)

[Author]

Posts