e-Bikes – Let’s talk

[LhasaCM]

@sjclaeys 192185 wrote:

Yes, my point is that there is little/no basis to expect e-bike riders to behave any differently from analog/acoustic bike riders. In fact, it may be more likely that both sets of riders overall generally behave more similarly to how they drive a vehicle. I do not dispute the size of the n in my observation, but low n size has not stopped many on the forum from using personal observations as the basis for making public safety policy.

Food for thought: one thing I’ve discovered that I need to be careful of with trusting my observations is the inherent tendency to remember/recall the unusual vs. the common that gets lost in background noise. By the time I got to camp this morning for drop-off, I could vividly recall the one scooter rider who blew through a red light crossing our path and the one bike rider who was salmoning coming toward us on a one way street. I did not (until I went back and looked at the video to test this notion) retain any sort of reaction to the 5 cars that ran red lights, 4 cars that almost right hooked us, countless cars that rolled through stop signs, or 3 cars parked in bike lanes we had to swerve around.

[rcannon100]

Congratulations. This thread is 8 years old! It is officially the longest running thread of the forum.

[IMG]https://i.chzbgr.com/full/6791880960/h2A8E8F69/[/IMG]

[ChristoB50]

Nah, the “Missed Connections” is a month older…

[Steve O]

Want to Save the Environment? Subsidize E-Bikes.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2399731/to-save-environment-subsidize-e-bikes

[buschwacker]

@Steve O 192210 wrote:

Want to Save the Environment? Subsidize E-Bikes.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2399731/to-save-environment-subsidize-e-bikes

I have seen the light and it is an electric bicycle.

[Dewey]

An email was sent by 54 outdoor and trail conservancy groups to the National Park Service, Forest Service, and Bureau of Land Management, opposing any change by public land management agencies to legalize e-bikes on non-motorized trails, the email is worded to emphasise their particular concern is with “primitive” trails, back country, and wilderness areas. The Bicycle Products Suppliers Association/People for Bikes response said it supports decision making at a local level to allow trail managers to decide whether to allow ebikes on trails, roads, bicycle lanes, and improved multi-use paths on land owned/operated by the NPS, USFS, and BLM. In the DC area the Park Service operates non-motorized trails on arterial bicycle commuting routes including the C&O, MVT, CCT, and approaches to the Potomac bridges. According to the BRAIN article reporting the issue the Park Service told BRAIN on Monday it is in the process of developing an e-bike policy but did not say when it will be completed.

[n18]

I might start commuting from Oakton(West of Vienna) to Reston Bike room, but need to arrive wearing work clothes. I usually take this path, which is going to the W&OD first, then to Reston(8.4 Miles one way, or if I use Hunter Mill RD, 6.3 Miles). I already have 2 bikes(Both use 700c wheels), and plan to add an E-Bike conversion kit to one of them. The question is which kit is suitable? I am seeing kits from 250 to 1200 Watts. I think the limit in Virginia is 1000 Watts, and the 1200 Watts ones come with wiring option to reduce the power for compliance. One kit I am eyeing is this one, but I don’t know the minimum wattage needed. It’s $300 and the battery is nearly $400 extra. A complete Ebike(starting at $650) seems more attractive.

I am also inspired by those who lost weight. I used to do 25 Miles/Day on a manual bike, and lost some weight, but didn’t do that consistently, so I gained it back when real life interferes. Now I only do a measly 10 Miles/Day. When I use it a lot, I lose one pound for each 50 Miles. I still have 30 to 50 LBS to lose. I probably would do more mileage if I used an Ebike, since hilly places I am avoiding now are open to me. However, I want to easily take the conversion kit out on the weekend when I leave my bike outside and go shopping, etc., and so that means front wheel change and removable battery, or get one of those kits that attaches to the front gears(assuming they are easily removable).

Oh, and I plan to limit my speed to 15 MPH when around other cyclists/peds, even slower in hills, and 20 or so if nobody around.

Thank you.

[dasgeh]

@n18 192598 wrote:

I might start commuting from Oakton(West of Vienna) to Reston Bike room, but need to arrive wearing work clothes. I usually take this path, which is going to the W&OD first, then to Reston(8.4 Miles one way, or if I use Hunter Mill RD, 6.3 Miles). I already have 2 bikes(Both use 700c wheels), and plan to add an E-Bike conversion kit to one of them. The question is which kit is suitable? I am seeing kits from 250 to 1200 Watts. I think the limit in Virginia is 1000 Watts, and the 1200 Watts ones come with wiring option to reduce the power for compliance. One kit I am eyeing is this one, but I don’t know the minimum wattage needed. It’s $300 and the battery is nearly $400 extra. A complete Ebike(starting at $650) seems more attractive.

I am also inspired by those who lost weight. I used to do 25 Miles/Day on a manual bike, and lost some weight, but didn’t do that consistently, so I gained it back when real life interferes. Now I only do a measly 10 Miles/Day. When I use it a lot, I lose one pound for each 50 Miles. I still have 30 to 50 LBS to lose. I probably would do more mileage if I used an Ebike, since hilly places I am avoiding now are open to me. However, I want to easily take the conversion kit out on the weekend when I leave my bike outside and go shopping, etc., and so that means front wheel change and removable battery, or get one of those kits that attaches to the front gears(assuming they are easily removable).

Oh, and I plan to limit my speed to 15 MPH when around other cyclists/peds, even slower in hills, and 20 or so if nobody around.

Thank you.

The only conversions I know of that are easy to take on and off the bike are the ones like the Copenhagen wheel. I wouldn’t rely on changing one bike from e- to not often. Just get good locks.

That kit looks cheap. $650 for a complete ebike is cheap. You get what you pay for, in my experience. We’ve gotten middrive kits from Luna Cycles and they are not without issues (batteries not lasting as long as I’d hope).

[Dewey]

@dasgeh 192599 wrote:

The only conversions I know of that are easy to take on and off the bike are the ones like the Copenhagen wheel.

I think the OneMotor friction drive was supposed to fill this niche but it’s expensive for such a small battery.

[ChristoB50]

@n18 192598 wrote:

I might start commuting from Oakton(West of Vienna) to Reston Bike room, but need to arrive wearing work clothes. The question is which kit is suitable? I am seeing kits from 250 to 1200 Watts. A complete Ebike(starting at $650) seems more attractive.
I am also inspired by those who lost weight. I still have 30 to 50 LBS to lose. I probably would do more mileage if I used an Ebike, since hilly places I am avoiding now are open to me. However, I want to easily take the conversion kit out on the weekend when I leave my bike outside and go shopping, etc., and so that means front wheel change and removable battery, or get one of those kits that attaches to the front gears(assuming they are easily removable).
Oh, and I plan to limit my speed to 15 MPH when around other cyclists/peds, even slower in hills, and 20 or so if nobody around.
Thank you.

I don’t have any experience with conversion kits… So I can only offer my experiences with my ebike from the last 17 months, if they might be useful to you.

It is a Class3 750w — and in hindsight, for my kind of riding, it has more power than I realistically need. I don’t really enjoy bike speeds above about 21mph; I only tend to hit those mid-20’s on a good downhill run. My average trip speed comes in about 12-13mph.
While I had to make use of the bike’s higher assist levels in the early months (then at 303lbs, with no prior exercise routine, etc.) I eventually reached a point with weight drop (down about 52 pounds now; but need to tweak my eating/diet to tackle the next 35 I want to lose) and an increase in stamina and strength, etc., where I could comfortably stay in the lowest assist setting (Level 1 of 5) basically exclusively. Eventually even making use of Level 0 / No Assist. For instance last night’s 22mi ride home saw the majority of that trip — about 85% — spent in Level 0; just pedaling a 52+ pound bike… I used Level 1 for a couple uphills where I didn’t feel like losing much momentum.

I like the L-0 / no-assist feature for when I want to ensure I will raise my heart rate, and when I can also afford to get very sweaty (like evening rides home.) But thinking back now, I believe I could have easily gone with a 250w or 500w ebike and been just as content in the end.
I tried my Bianchi for 2 commutes this summer — and gave up on it because I arrived so much sweatier; to the point I’d probably consider a shower necessary. (That was without lengthening my allotted time for the ride — @30mins.) So the ebike will definitely be my warm-weather commuter, but I plan to mix in the Bianchi more, once the morning temperatures drop into the 60’s…

On my morning office commutes (5 miles door to door short-route, though I tend to take a 7 mile route in and then make the ride home much longer) — I ride (warm weather) in shorts & a tee, with my work clothes (a casual attire office) in my pannier. I ride to work in Level 1 this way, and typically get to work with a sweaty face and slightly damp hair (not dripping) and slightly damp t-shirt (at neck/shoulders.) Nothing serious enough to require a fresh shower… just a brief cool-down/rest, a hand towel, and then change clothes and go to my desk. I could probably eliminate the sweat almost entirely if I chose to ride in Level 2, or Level 2 + hills at Level 3. But that takes a toll on the battery of course, and I’ve grown to sort of enjoy a kind of “hypermiling” on each full charge; seeing how far I can go, cumulatively, between charge cycles. So I’m content to put up with a little head sweat & a change of clothes in the mornings, for lower assist levels / added range on a charge. If I *had* to bike in my actual work attire (khakis, long-sleeve button-down), especially in summer — I would certainly use Level 2 constantly and have to accept the extra battery charging cycles…

As for your riding speed… another topic entirely! Glad you plan to ride it responsibly! I’m not a speed demon (ie, didn’t buy this bike so I could fly at a constant, effortless 25mph)… Last night’s lap around Hains Point was without assist, and I was holding right in the 14.5-16.5mph range on that loop. Quite a few cyclists flew past me. (Granted, that’s not a MUT with say, a 15mph posted limit. But I routinely get passed on the MVT as well, where I aim to keep it under 16-17mph; downhills being an exception, where I pick up speed albeit briefly.)

[Dewey]

@n18 192598 wrote:

One kit I am eyeing is this one, but I don’t know the minimum wattage needed. It’s $300 and the battery is nearly $400 extra.

That’s a large heavy 48v direct drive motor with a 30a controller, with users reporting speeds up to 30mph. Given your desire to ride legally and remain at trail speeds I’d suggest their cheaper ($235) lighter 36v geared hub motor with the 22a controller, it will easily perform at 15-20mph and help you up hills, their 36v 11.6ah bottle battery is $280. For the pros and cons of dd vs geared see their blog post.

[dasgeh]

@Dewey 192605 wrote:

I think the OneMotor friction drive was supposed to fill this niche but it’s expensive for such a small battery.

This is one I’ve seen in the wild: https://www.geoo.com/

In my 2 second interaction with the rider, she said she really liked it. But yeah, not cheap.

[n18]

Thank you all for your help. I might go with the 36V/500W version. I also learned that front assist with a powerful motor is a bad idea, because the fork is not designed to be pulled in manual bikes. The motor twists it if high torque was applied. There have been reports of mostly aluminum forks breaking, and causing broken bones, but I have steel front suspension, and the kit comes with this part to reduce stress on the fork, so I might go with the front after all. I don’t need a full time EBike, just for some trips.

[Judd]

@n18 192652 wrote:

Thank you all for your help. I might go with the 36V/500W version. I also learned that front assist with a powerful motor is a bad idea, because the fork is not designed to be pulled in manual bikes. The motor twists it if high torque was applied. There have been reports of mostly aluminum forks breaking, and causing broken bones, but I have steel front suspension, and the kit comes with this part to reduce stress on the fork, so I might go with the front after all. I don’t need a full time EBike, just for some trips.

When you do a conversion kit, do you also have to change out your tires to e-bike rated tires?

[n18]

@Judd 192654 wrote:

When you do a conversion kit, do you also have to change out your tires to e-bike rated tires?

Not that I know of.

Also, I found this web page which has a simulator that tells you how fast would you go up a hill giving motor watts and hill grade.

[Author]

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