e-Bikes – Let’s talk

[eminva]

Freaky coincidence!

I was passed by a woman on an ebike on the Custis Trail this morning. She passed me right after the S Curve of Death, and I did later catch up with her at the light by the Key Bridge Marriott, but I would have had to shoal a whole bunch of people to get a closer look at the bike or ask her about it.

I see Mark’s point — but as Greenbelt points out, in the wrong hands, this could go very wrong. I’ll hope for the best.

Liz

[OneEighth]

I’m okay with someone like Dirt cruising along the trail at 20+ mph because he’s competent. You generally don’t have the ability to hit and hold higher speeds unless you’ve spent a good bit of time in the saddle and have, consequently, developed a skill level commensurate with your strength and endurance. I think it’s also fairly safe to assume a certain level of commitment to cycling and good cycling practices/manners when you are spending that kind of time on it.

That’s simply not the case with e-bikes.

[Mark Blacknell]

@OneEighth 4927 wrote:

I think it’s also fairly safe to assume a certain level of commitment to cycling and good cycling practices/manners when you are spending that kind of time on it.

Welcome to Arlington’s trails, where you’ll *never* find any tri boys & girls all hunched over on their bars and drilling it without regard to the rest of the population

~

I’m less interested in being an active proponent of e-bikes (I’ll leave that to others) than in encouraging a cautious approach to calling for bans of anything on trails. We just might unexpectedly end up on the wrong end of that stick. (“Stop, the bike you save may be your own . . .” )

[OneEighth]

As I said in my first post, it’s already dangerous enough out there with folks who have achieved the cycling equivalent of being promoted to their level of incompetence.
And, yes, I see your point about being careful what you wish for. That crossed my mind right from the start. But how many pedestrians are going to distinguish between e-bikes and regular bikes when they feel threatened by dangerous riding on the trail?
Anything that adds to the perception that cyclists and other trail users cannot share the trail hurts us.
So, the question really is, how do you safely integrate e-bikes into the current trail users?

[Dirt]

As I think about this more and combine things with my own experience with cycling, I have a certain amount of concern with eBikes and their ability to stop. It is all well and good to go fast on something like an eBike. Those things are pretty heavy. Having spent 5000+ miles riding a cargo bike that weighs close to 80 pounds, I can tell you that even with disc brakes with 200mm rotors, it doesn’t exactly stop on a dime. I have no direct evidence of the stopping power of eBikes, but I do know that while motorpacing with Mr. eBike, I on my road bike required significantly less distance to stop when compared to Mr. eBike dude.

[DaveK]

No problems with anything that gets more people out on bikes and out of their cars. There’s a guy I pass regularly passing by Iwo Jima in the morning on an e-bike, all dressed up (very cleanly pressed clothes I might add) that I really don’t see getting out there in his work clothes if he had to pedal up and down the hill himself. If an e-bike is what it takes to get people out there, then bring on the e-bikes.

Responsibility is for everyone, not just e-bike riders. Every single person on here (and out on the trails) is capable of putting themselves in an unsafe situation out there, be it 30 mph in the drops down the Custis Trail or weaving through pedestrians at 12 mph.

[Dirt]

@DaveK 4935 wrote:

Responsibility is for everyone, not just e-bike riders. Every single person on here (and out on the trails) is capable of putting themselves in an unsafe situation out there, be it 30 mph in the drops down the Custis Trail or weaving through pedestrians at 12 mph.

You’re absolutely right.

[CCrew]

@Dirt 4940 wrote:

You’re absolutely right.

Yeah, but IMHO an eBike increases that exponentially. It’s an easy way for a rider that doesn’t have the skill level to travel at a speed where they really should have it. I’ll grant that does indeed apply to some non eBike riders but you generally have to have a bit of experience to travel at those speeds and with that does come at least some knowledge.

I’m of the mindset to have at them on the streets..to stay off the trails where they’re questionably legal and will do a lot to give “real” cyclists a bad name in the wrong hands. Not like we can’t do that on our own without a battery.. But for the cost to run one on the street just buy a scooter. They are however starting to get dumped at price points approaching that of an entry level road bike.

[eBikeDude]

Sorry for the slow reply. Last i checked, I was not a spambot. But if Hal has anything to say about it, that could change.

[eBikeDude]

Thanks for all the thoughts, folks. I started the thread, then promptly got called out of town. Just joined the forum, and so I’m really impressed by the vibrant engagement I’m seeing. And I’m truly amazed at the level heads that are prevailing – at least on this topic.

From a purely “green” standpoint, I’m fascinated by the potential of eBikes to expand the number of people ditching their cars (at least part of the time), saving fuel and getting some exercise as well. (I’m told that, despite the electric power, there is a natural tendency to pedal, even when you don’t have to.) I hadn’t given any thought to the trails issue, and given the already-contentious relationship between different classes of trail user (bikes vs. peds), I can appreciate the concern for the PR (and real danger) issues that eBikes might represent.

I can’t help but focus on the fact that overall bile usage is not on the trails, but on the streets. I don’t know what the ratio would be, but one would have to assume that it’s a big factor. And if you’ll indulge a bit of optimistic thinking, I would ask you to ponder that possibility that a huge influx of eBikes – especially those focused on commuting – might bring real attention for the need for dedicated bike lanes on more roads.

Given the likelihood that gas prices will again soar above $4, I see eBikes as an inevitable future trend, and from a purely green perspective, I consider that a good thing.

Remember what they said when the Segway was coming out; that they would redesign transportation systems around them? Well, that never came to pass, but I really think that eBikes hold the potential to drive that kind of change. The challenge will be in navigating the trails issues, etc. between now and then.

BTW, for the record, I do not yet own an eBike. But I’ve ridden one, and I’m “sold” on their potential. I do not at this point live in a location where such a bike would be practical. (i.e. I live off of a busy 2-lane road in Great Falls, VA, where one would be insane to attempt using such a vehicle.) But at some point I might own one, when/if the opportunity is right. For now, I’m just pondering the pros/cons of this up-and-coming variation on the bicycle theme.

Please keep the thoughts flowing!

[StopMeansStop]

I’ve started noticing e-bikes on the trails now. So far so good, but I think it’s a matter of time before the speed those bikes allow will cause an accident.

Like others have said, there is a time and place to go 30 mph on the trails. Today was the first day I felt confident enough on my new road bike to drop down on the Custis trail hill after 66 and let loose. But even then I made damn sure the coast was clear and the only person I was putting in jeopardy was myself.

[CCrew]

@eBikeDude 5044 wrote:

From a purely “green” standpoint, I’m fascinated by the potential of eBikes to expand the number of people ditching their cars (at least part of the time), saving fuel and getting some exercise as well. (I’m told that, despite the electric power, there is a natural tendency to pedal, even when you don’t have to.) I hadn’t given any thought to the trails issue, and given the already-contentious relationship between different classes of trail user (bikes vs. peds), I can appreciate the concern for the PR (and real danger) issues that eBikes might represent.

I think that before you embrace the “green” factor of an eBike you really should do some research into the gaping hole in the ecosystem caused by the battery technology. It’s something that the Prius lovers of the world like to conveniently forget, but the mining damage that occurs to support battery technologies is far larger than that used to support the steel and oil to power old school autos. If you really want green, pedal. If you don’t want to see steel mine damage , buy a bamboo bike and pedal that.

[eBikeDude]

@CCrew; great point. Overall sustainability needs to be considered.

[CCrew]

@eBikeDude 5052 wrote:

@CCrew; great point. Overall sustainability needs to be considered.

Yeah, it’s a bigger factor than a lot of people actually realize. It’s really easy to tout green technology, hard to actually truly practice it.

In the end though an eBike I’m certain has less of an impact on the environment than an automobile, so there’s a big plus in it’s favor. Thing is that when you compare it to a regular bike that gain goes away rather quickly, so it’s a tradeoff like anything else. When that battery dies like all will, it’s yet another demerit in the green food chain as to the disposal impact.

[Mark Blacknell]

@eBikeDude 5044 wrote:

overall bile usage is not on the trails, but on the streets.

You said it.

~

I don’t think ebike adoption is inevitable, but I do think it could be a net positive. The point about batteries is a good one, though I think it’s an open question. Is ebike manufacturing more sustainable than what it took to manufacture my present commuter (a steel MTB)? No. More than my carbon Cannondale? Closer question, but probably not. More than a second car? Uh, yeah.

~

Saw a guy on an ebike coming up the Custis trail the other day, and I’m pretty sure I could have run faster than he was going. I also suspect he wouldn’t have been on a bike, but for the e part of it. On balance, I consider that a win.

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