e-Bikes – Let’s talk

[buschwacker]

I’ve found that most people assume that an e-bike performs like a motorized bicycle with an internal combustion engine (moped). It seems clear that the legacy prohibition of “motorized” bikes on the MVT, for example, had internal combustion engines in mind. No one that rides a consumer e-bike could reasonably come away with the impression that it is similar in performance to a moped, but if you’ve never ridden one, it’s difficult to understand the qualitative difference between the two.

I’d love to meet up with someone from Arlington DES and let them ride my RadCity a bit. The difference would be made clear.

[jamilkb]

I’m rather annoyed by the stubbornness of so many people to educate themselves about ebikes…. If folks would simply take the time to test ride one at any of the many local shops that sell them then they’ll immediately see that ebikes aren’t the big scary monsters they’re made out to be.

I routinely travel faster on my regular road bikes than I do on my pedal assist ebike. The ebike simply allows me to get up the hills from DC back home to Arlington with the child trailer in tow in a more reasonable time period. (25min. vs. 1hr)

[buschwacker]

@jamilkb 183192 wrote:

I’m rather annoyed by the stubbornness of so many people to educate themselves about ebikes…. If folks would simply take the time to test ride one at any of the many local shops that sell them then they’ll immediately see that ebikes aren’t the big scary monsters they’re made out to be.

The counterpoint to this is the homebrew e-bikes that sometimes are encountered on MUPs around here. I’ve seen a couple that must have been doing 30mph. I commute every day on an e-bike and consider 30mph unsafe for any vehicle on a MUP, motorized or not.

[jamilkb]

@buschwacker 183193 wrote:

The counterpoint to this is the homebrew e-bikes that sometimes are encountered on MUPs around here. I’ve seen a couple that must have been doing 30mph. I commute every day on an e-bike and consider 30mph unsafe for any vehicle on a MUP, motorized or not.

Agree…although i’ve only encountered that once..and it was a scooter not a bike. But def. see the counterpoint.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@buschwacker 183191 wrote:

I’ve found that most people assume that an e-bike performs like a motorized bicycle with an internal combustion engine (moped). It seems clear that the legacy prohibition of “motorized” bikes on the MVT, for example, had internal combustion engines in mind. No one that rides a consumer e-bike could reasonably come away with the impression that it is similar in performance to a moped, but if you’ve never ridden one, it’s difficult to understand the qualitative difference between the two.

I’d love to meet up with someone from Arlington DES and let them ride my RadCity a bit. The difference would be made clear.

And I hear “you’re basically riding a motorcycle on the trail” quite often. My motorcycle has 85 horsepower (63000 Watts), weighs 450 pounds, and will do about 120mph. My Radwagon has 750 watts, weighs 70 pounds, and is limited to 20mph. This sort of hyperbole, of course, seems to mainly come from people who’ve never actually ridden a regular e-bike.

[cvcalhoun]

@hozn 178569 wrote:

Of course, I also think that cycling is such a rich activity and e-bikes only open up a tiny percentage of this, that I can’t help but feeling that someone is really missing out (on the group rides, the racing, the off-road riding) if that’s their only bike.

I don’t go on group rides precisely because I can’t keep up. So for me, an e-bike would be the one way I could do them. As for off-road riding and racing, that’s out of the question in any event.

I have thought about getting an e-bike for commuting. Right now, I bike in most days, but typically take Metro most of the way home. I had to give up biking home because that takes me two hours, as opposed to one hour when taking Metro most of the way. (Home to Bethesda is mostly uphill.) An e-bike could potentially solve that problem. But right now, e-bikes are banned on the CCT. And the idea of biking on the roads after dark makes me nervous, what with the drivers who think they own the road.

[lordofthemark]

@cvcalhoun 183196 wrote:

I don’t go on group rides precisely because I can’t keep up. So for me, an e-bike would be the one way I could do them. As for off-road riding and racing, that’s out of the question in any event.

I have thought about getting an e-bike for commuting. Right now, I bike in most days, but typically take Metro most of the way home. I had to give up biking home because that takes me two hours, as opposed to one hour when taking Metro most of the way. (Home to Bethesda is mostly uphill.) An e-bike could potentially solve that problem. But right now, e-bikes are banned on the CCT. And the idea of biking on the roads after dark makes me nervous, what with the drivers who think they own the road.

We need to ride together sometime (during Freezing Saddles?) I can barely keep up on group rides, and would be happy to go slower. (note I am not saying that you shouldn’t get an ebike)

[hozn]

@cvcalhoun 183196 wrote:

I don’t go on group rides precisely because I can’t keep up. So for me, an e-bike would be the one way I could do them. As for off-road riding and racing, that’s out of the question in any event.

I suspect we have different definitions of “group ride”. I meant the ones where everyone is in lycra hammering up the hill or sprinting to the the city-limit signs. E-bikes are not welcome on those rides and I’d imagine that won’t change; the focus is on the athletics of cycling.

Obviously, e-bikes offer some very practical value, but even though the majority of the miles I put on a bike (commuting) I could do an an e-bike (ignoring the legality of using it on the W&OD), the part of cycling that I really love are all things that I can’t do on an e-bike (those lycra group rides, the racing, the mountain biking). So, my comment was just meant to convey the feeling that cycling has so many facets and an e-bike really only addresses a few of them. Nothing wrong with that, especially if it’s a good gateway drug to “real” cycling.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@cvcalhoun 183196 wrote:

But right now, e-bikes are banned on the CCT. And the idea of biking on the roads after dark makes me nervous, what with the drivers who think they own the road.

“A friend I know” commutes on an e-bike on the CCT multiple times a week and has even passed MPD officers on the trail. If you’re a stickler for the rules, I get it, but DC’s e-bike laws are absurd.

Obviously the law and order crowd will take issue with this, but to them I’d say “how would you like me to commute from DC to Virginia on my e-bike and NOT violate the law?” I can either a)take the lane on Key Bridge, then take the lane out on Lee Hwy and add like 7 miles to my commute, or b)ride out Canal Road and take the lane on Chain Bridge. Yeah, sorry no.

[lordofthemark]

@hozn 183198 wrote:

I suspect we have different definitions of “group ride”. I meant the ones where everyone is in lycra hammering up the hill or sprinting to the the city-limit signs. E-bikes are not welcome on those rides and I’d imagine that won’t change; the focus is on the athletics of cycling.

I am very happy that folks who do those kinds of rides are part of our community and all (I mean for god’s sake, our local bike shops could hardly survive on people like me) but really, not doing those limits you a to a tiny percentage of the cycling experience? I have never raced (or done any competition other than BAFS) nor done a hammerfest ride. Even if and when I complement my hybrid with a road bike, I doubt I will be racing or doing hammerfests. I will be commuting, doing errands, recreating/exploring alone, and riding in social rides. For most people an ebike would be fine for 90% to 100% of the riding they do.

[sjclaeys]

@buschwacker 183193 wrote:

The counterpoint to this is the homebrew e-bikes that sometimes are encountered on MUPs around here. I’ve seen a couple that must have been doing 30mph. I commute every day on an e-bike and consider 30mph unsafe for any vehicle on a MUP, motorized or not.

I take offense to the pejorative use of the term “homebrew”! Homebrew and e-bikes must never mix!
[ATTACH=CONFIG]18610[/ATTACH]

[hozn]

@lordofthemark 183200 wrote:

I am very happy that folks who do those kinds of rides are part of our community and all (I mean for god’s sake, our local bike shops could hardly survive on people like me) but really, not doing those limits you a to a tiny percentage of the cycling experience? I have never raced (or done any competition other than BAFS) nor done a hammerfest ride. Even if and when I complement my hybrid with a road bike, I doubt I will be racing or doing hammerfests. I will be commuting, doing errands, recreating/exploring alone, and riding in social rides. For most people an ebike would be fine for 90% to 100% of the riding they do.

Yeah, I think this just illustrates that there are many different worlds of cycling. The vast majority of the cyclists I know participate in one or more of these other activities (no surprise, it’s because that’s who I’m going to connect with to ride bikes), so in my little bubble, I can’t imagine a world of cycling that doesn’t include these things. Or, if I can, but it’s a dreary world. And I’m sure there are at least scores of cyclists out there that can’t imagine how someone could be a cyclist and never have tandem riding or track racing. So, I think the original point that cycling can be more than just running errands is still a valid point. (I also suspect that in the USA the majority of cyclists are recreational riders.)

[dasgeh]

Ugh, DES. Virginia law allows ebikes on trails (section 46.2-903) and does not give localities the authority to change that. Enter Dillon Rule and the Arlington ordinance violates state law. ACPD has said as much and has said they allow ebikes on trails.

@buschwacker 183191 wrote:

I’d love to meet up with someone from Arlington DES and let them ride my RadCity a bit. The difference would be made clear.

There’s at least one person who works in the County building who rides a RadWagon, and I think he’s in DES…

[cvcalhoun]

@lordofthemark 183197 wrote:

We need to ride together sometime (during Freezing Saddles?) I can barely keep up on group rides, and would be happy to go slower. (note I am not saying that you shouldn’t get an ebike)

Sounds like a plan. But I would caution you, I managed to win the Tortoise Prize (slowest rider in all of Freezing Saddles) so many times that I think I retired it. Freezingsaddles.org seems to be down at the moment, so I can’t check, but I believe my average speed last year was somewhat south of 8 mph.

[lordofthemark]

@hozn 183206 wrote:

Yeah, I think this just illustrates that there are many different worlds of cycling. The vast majority of the cyclists I know participate in one or more of these other activities (no surprise, it’s because that’s who I’m going to connect with to ride bikes), so in my little bubble, I can’t imagine a world of cycling that doesn’t include these things. Or, if I can, but it’s a dreary world. And I’m sure there are at least scores of cyclists out there that can’t imagine how someone could be a cyclist and never have tandem riding or track racing. So, I think the original point that cycling can be more than just running errands is still a valid point. (I also suspect that in the USA the majority of cyclists are recreational riders.)[/QUOte]

My guess is the majority of people in the USA who have ridden a bike in the last year are folks who took their old bike out of the basement a few times on spring days for a spin with the kids, or just around the trail nearby, or put the bike in the SUV and rode to a meet up group. Not transportation riders OR hammerfesters. (and all the folks who only ride when they are on vacation, on rentals or bike shares, in order to explore around I guess that’s recreational?) Whether there are more serious recreational riders or more transportation riders (leaving out the folks who do both – since there are some serious synergies between the two, and of course, overlapping trip purposes) I dunno.

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