e-Bikes – Let’s talk

[eBikeDude]

I see a number of pros and cons to e-bikes, and I’d like to get a conversation going on that topic. Any other e-Bike users out there? What do you like about it? Anyone with concerns about e-Bikes? Let’s hear from you too! Please be nice, though!

Topic

[lordofthemark]

@huskerdont 178547 wrote:

Nothing wrong with testing one out, if that’s what this post is saying. I merely think that since the object of the e-assist is to make things easier, by definition things are not harder; hence, no HTFUing. (I suppose there could be the exception for someone who could not otherwise ride at all for health reasons.)

You did not look closely enough The point was that I made TWO seperate attempts to climb Meridian Hill on the Jump Bike, and failed both times (Not sure I could ride up that hill on the Cannondale hybrid, even in granny gear, not that I have ever tried) despite pedaling with all my might (though had I been more willing to violate traffic laws, I might have managed more momentum coming up to the hill). IE depending on what you are trying to do, Rule #5 can still come into play – unless you are riding a class 2 with a throttle, or consistently taking it easy in terms of speed and grade (note I have never ridden a Class 3 ebike other than at Hains Point, so perhaps I am wrong with respect to them – and I guess Jump Bikes are heavier than regular Class 1 ebikes)

[Dewey]

@lordofthemark 178562 wrote:

I made TWO seperate attempts to climb Meridian Hill on the Jump Bike, and failed both times…I guess Jump Bikes are heavier than regular Class 1 ebikes)

When it comes to Class 1 250w motors opinion is divided on the merits of different types of electric motors for climbing hills. My limited understanding of ebike motors is that a geared hub motor that uses internal planetary gearing will always outperform a direct drive hub motor that has none but tends to build up waste heat to the point the motor cuts out to preserve the mosfets from burning out, although in defense of direct drive motors I’ve read that ferrofluid can bridge the gap between the stator and the rotor to help dissipate waste heat, whereas a mid-drive motor powers the front chainring possibly giving it a mechanical advantage over the other two motor types hence the popularity of mid-drive motors on higher end European and Asian pedelecs and Class 1 ebikes. I chose a 250w mid-drive kit motor to convert my bicycle because ebike riders in the UK, which like the EU has strict power and speed limits, were saying it was the best type of 250w motor to climb hills. You might like to email JUMP about your experience riding their ebike up hills in DC and suggest they look into adopting a higher power rated direct drive hub motor with ferrofluid and hubsink cooling fins. It is unlikely they would consider a mid-drive motor due to the increased wear and tear on the drivetrain.

[hozn]

@Sunyata 178545 wrote:

I was not being sarcastic at all. And I am honestly not sure why you thought I was being sarcastic or why you were offended by what I said. I am not against e-bikes at all on paved/gravel multi-use trails, so long as they (like everyone should be) are courteous and safe. I just made an observation that during the rainy week last week, I was not sure I saw an e-bike out and about (perhaps I should have noted that I saw less conventional bikes too, but this is not a conversation about conventional bikes). I normally notice them because I tend to pay attention to other’s bikes because I am curious what other folks are riding. I am not saying there is anything wrong with e-cyclists (or folks on conventional cycles) that are fair weather cyclists. Not everyone wants to get out and ride in the rain, I get that.

I also didn’t see any ebikes during my commutes in the rain last week. But the number of non-ebikes was so much lower, that the percentage probably was going to round down to 0 anyway. In general I now see a dozen or so over the course of a week on the W&OD. Much, much higher than previous years. About half of the ones I see are class-3 bikes. While I’ll still be glad when VA disallows those on multi-use paths, all the riders I see do seem to be following the trail rules and being respectful of others, so that’s good.

[lordofthemark]

@Dewey 178565 wrote:

When it comes to Class 1 250w motors opinion is divided on the merits of different types of electric motors for climbing hills. My limited understanding of ebike motors is that a geared hub motor that uses internal planetary gearing will always outperform a direct drive hub motor that has none but tends to build up waste heat to the point the motor cuts out to preserve the mosfets from burning out, although in defense of direct drive motors I’ve read that ferrofluid can bridge the gap between the stator and the rotor to help dissipate waste heat, whereas a mid-drive motor powers the front chainring possibly giving it a mechanical advantage over the other two motor types hence the popularity of mid-drive motors on higher end European and Asian pedelecs and Class 1 ebikes. I chose a 250w mid-drive kit motor to convert my bicycle because ebike riders in the UK, which like the EU has strict power and speed limits, were saying it was the best type of 250w motor to climb hills. You might like to email JUMP about your experience riding their ebike up hills in DC and suggest they look into adopting a higher power rated direct drive hub motor with ferrofluid and hubsink cooling fins. It is unlikely they would consider a mid-drive motor due to the increased wear and tear on the drivetrain.

Well er yeah, of course, doesn’t everyone know that?

My goal is still to get an actual road bike for hill climbing, and to wait to get an ebike until “time and fate” take their toll. I was riding just to get a better idea (as an advocate) of what ebikes can do. And in fact to see how much effort is required.

[hozn]

@bentbike33 178490 wrote:

Ebike riders are not famous for following rules 5 and 9.

I rather doubt anyone would disagree. But I think this is akin to disparaging someone’s minivan because you don’t think it’d clock good track times. Endurance events and other HTFU activities were probably not the driving factors in choosing an e-bike. People ride bikes for different reasons; I think it’s great to get more people out enjoying lighter-modes of transport. Of course, I also think that cycling is such a rich activity and e-bikes only open up a tiny percentage of this, that I can’t help but feeling that someone is really missing out (on the group rides, the racing, the off-road riding) if that’s their only bike.

[dasgeh]

@hozn 178567 wrote:

While I’ll still be glad when VA disallows those on multi-use paths, all the riders I see do seem to be following the trail rules and being respectful of others, so that’s good.

But why would you want rule-following, respectful riders banned?

[hozn]

@dasgeh 178573 wrote:

But why would you want rule-following, respectful riders banned?

I’m not proposing banning anyone from the trail. I just support banning class-3 e-bikes from the trail. I’m sure those trail users will also be rule-following and respectful on class-1 e-bikes or “regular” human-power-only bicycles. I don’t feel there’s any justification for allowing them (vs. class-1) and just because the sample I have are respectful and rule-following, this seems like a huge liability if/when these becomes more common. Which inevitably, as prices drop, they will.

[lordofthemark]

@dasgeh 178573 wrote:

But why would you want rule-following, respectful riders banned?

[[IMG]https://imgur.com/gallery/iWKad22[/IMG[/img]https://goo.gl/images/t1sWRT

[lordofthemark]

@hozn 178575 wrote:

I’m not proposing banning anyone from the trail. I just support banning class-3 e-bikes from the trail. I’m sure those trail users will also be rule-following and respectful on class-1 e-bikes or “regular” human-power-only bicycles. I don’t feel there’s any justification for allowing them (vs. class-1) and just because the sample I have are respectful and rule-following, this seems like a huge liability if/when these becomes more common. Which inevitably, as prices drop, they will.

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[lordofthemark]

@dasgeh 178573 wrote:

But why would you want rule-following, respectful riders banned?

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[Dewey]

Cute product placement, a kickstarter business gave New York City video blogger Casey Neistat a fat tire Class 2 ebike. One of the folks in the comments owns a pedelec ebike shop in Brooklyn and pointed out New York’s pedal assist law requires the rider to remove the throttle. The skid into the crosswalk by helmetless Casey followed by the line “and most importantly you have to obey traffic laws” maybe not the best advertisement for ebikes but at least he stopped for a red light.

[Dewey]

@Dewey 177890 wrote:

I spoke too soon, Gov. Ducey vetoed the ebike bill along with other unrelated legislation in protest about funding teachers pay.

The ebike bill has now been signed into law in Arizona.

[Brendan von Buckingham]

Saw an ebike yesterday that had only one front chain ring. It couldn’t have been more than 2″ in diameter; (maybe 12 teeth?). Rings on the back cassette were huge in comparison; like pie plates. I can’t conceive how the cyclist adds any power to the ebike in that set up. What am I missing?

[drevil]

@Brendan von Buckingham 178826 wrote:

Saw an ebike yesterday that had only one front chain ring. It couldn’t have been more than 2″ in diameter; (maybe 12 teeth?). Rings on the back cassette were huge in comparison; like pie plates. I can’t conceive how the cyclist adds any power to the ebike in that set up. What am I missing?

50,000 RPM legs.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@Brendan von Buckingham 178826 wrote:

Saw an ebike yesterday that had only one front chain ring. It couldn’t have been more than 2″ in diameter; (maybe 12 teeth?). Rings on the back cassette were huge in comparison; like pie plates. I can’t conceive how the cyclist adds any power to the ebike in that set up. What am I missing?

eMTB

[Author]

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