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The question was prompted by my experience last week. I camped for several nights at different spots between Harper’s Ferry and Little Orleans. One camp was empty. Another had a one camper who didn’t mind my presence although the pump didn’t work ’cause the vandals took the handle. (Maybe it was broke, but I couldn’t resist the lyrical reference.) The third time, at dusk, I stopped at a campsite that already had 2 tents and 4 people at the picnic table. When I started to set up camp at the edge of the clearing, one approached me and said the campsites were first-come-first-served and that I needed to go. I suggestion that there was plenty of room, but they were firm that I was not welcome. I wasn’t interested in confrontation and in spite of the risk of setting up camp in the dark, I moved on and found a place a few miles away. My social skills aren’t so good so I wasn’t sure how rude I was for assuming that campgrounds are public spaces. I met a lot of nice people on the trip and this was a surprisingly unfriendly contrast.

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From Vienna to Reston the trail is a scene out of Little Shop of Horrors. A mowing pass is needed to reclaim that half of the lane lost to the thorny foliage.

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My theory: It is all about horsepower and traffic density.

In Manila every vehicle is underpowered and severely overloaded. There are no traffic lights or stop signs. Everyone just goes…but very slowly. It appears chaotic and inefficient. 3 striped lanes turn into 4 lanes of cars plus filtering for 5 lanes of mopeds with pedestrians crossing at any point at diagonals. Everything moves along at speeds below 25 mph. No spaces open up to allow faster speeds as all roadway is filled…including the box. There are no stop signs and no one stops anyway. No accidents occur because the underpowered vehicles can’t accelerate faster than a pedestrian can run.

If you have stop signs and traffic lights traffic flow creates spaces allowing higher speeds. A powerful engine allows one to accelerate to 35 mph in the space taken up by the intersection box, for example. Pedestrians can’t outrun American vehicles like they can the jeepneys and tricycles in Manila. That reduces the egalitarian aspects of Manila traffic and makes it more dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians in US cities due to the relative speed difference.

If traffic speeds are slower than 25mph and if all vehicles accelerated slower than a bicycle (and stopped twice as fast) we would not need stop sign adherence by anyone.

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@zsionakides 187396 wrote:

You can do a hell of a lot more damage at 28mph on a 50+ lb e-bike than at 12mph on a 20lb regular bike.

E-bikes should be encouraged for road use by building appropriate biking (and scooter) lanes and cycle tracks within the current roadway structure. Those facilities are appropriate for the higher speed traveling that e-bikes encourage.

If conservation of energy is the point of this quoted comment, why be concerned about the difference between bike and ebike riders (50#x16mph=800) and suggest the solution is to mix e-bikers up with cars where the difference is 4000#x35mph=140,000.

F=MA so yes, a heavier bike at a higher speed is going to require more force to stop or project more energy onto another moving object. The relative difference in force required to stop different riders at twice the speed is the same as twice the mass. For safety we should weigh each cyclist and restrict their speed accordingly?

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Here’s my vote for the next Tyson’s project: Fix it so the nice bridge over the toll road doesn’t end at a really poorly implemented trail around the hotel to Spring Hill road. This path is unusable as it is extremely narrow (5′ total) lined with closely arranged bollards, a ghetto of trash, tree sized weeds, and obstacles from construction workers. Could they at least leave space at either end to allow exit and entrance from the path so we can ride the street instead of the gutter on this short section?

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I should add that to get to 25 mph on the flats requires a lot more power–almost twice that at 20mph. One can reduce the load by reducing wind resistance via tucking, drafting and reducing rolling resistance with faster tires. That load curve climbs steeply after 15mph which is why most analog biker have sub-15 average speeds.

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This graph show typical ebike performance. To maximize trip length the bike is configured to run the motor at peak efficiency at a speed of 20mph on the flats. As you can see from the green line that efficiency goes to zero at higher speeds. For an e-bike to go faster than 23mph the human has to put in all the power (almost impossible without gravity assist since 500 watts is required). Note the red power line. As the bike slows (i.e. going uphill) the power produced by the motor rises to keep up with the load. This is the technical reason why e-bikes are not faster than analog bikes but can produce better average speeds because of the ability to go up hills and into headwinds without slowing down much.

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A long but entertaining take on ebikes.

https://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2018/03/17/i-hate-your-e-bike/

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It isn’t fair to post a video in youtube with false information (e.g. that the ELF’s top speed is 35mph when it is actual 20-25mph) and when corrective information is pointed out in the comments the author deletes the comments section but does not correct the video.

The answer to the question: “Is it allowed” is yes! It is specifically allowed by VA code because it meets the definition of an electric assist bicycle and electric assist bicycles are regulated the same as “normal” bicycles on MUP in Virginia.

This vehicle has been safely operating on the trail since 2015 for literally many thousands of miles. At times the operator uses the adjacent path to compensate for cyclists who pass in an unsafe manner or ride side-by-side on each side of the yellow line or weave across both lanes of the path. A vehicle that enables the rider to drive defensively by avoiding asserting right of way in the face of other’s dangerous behavior is an odd reason for n18 to want it banned from the trail and replaced with a vehicle more to his liking.

Sorry consularrider that this extends this thread but VikingMariner appear to be purposefully trolling and a limited response is necessary to correct the bad information.

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The short days and no moon makes it pretty dark on the W&OD especially in areas without streetlights. Near Reston I slowed as I saw a flash of color moving in the opposite lane. As I got closer I could identify 5 people all in dark clothing spread across the trail. One person was pushing a stroller with a child up the center line of the trail. Behind and to the right walked a man holding a child. On the left was the 4 year old child meandering up the middle of the left lane. Fortunately the 4 year old’s coat had some color as I picked up on it well before the others were revealed. Usually joggers have shoes with refection but these people were in dark colors head to toe. I usually ring my bell as I get close to this area because of the trail intersections but the warnings produced no visible reaction. Even the brake squeal as I slowed down didn’t phase them. When I got a few feet behind the meandering child in the passing lane they finally begrudgingly collected the family to one side of the trail so I could pass. This ninja family was a stark contrast to the joggers lit up like Christmas trees that I usually see.

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What consensus is there for limits on visibility markings? I run lights during the day and some cyclists cover their eyes in some sort of “your blinding me” pantomime. When I stopped using lights in response the safety patrol motioned to turn them back on. My 2 lights are mounted about 12 inches above the ground and are each 4 1-watt leds for a total of about 700lm. These aren’t bright enough to hurt anyone’s eyes even if they were to look directly into them at point blank range at night. Perhaps some people prefer a softer yellow light and these are a harsher high temperature white. Are there other reasons why some might engage in so much drama over lighting? Absent a reasonable concern for retina damage or even reduction in night vision, I’ve assumed it is simply a round-about way to protest electric-assist vehicles.

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Several years ago when I registered for Freezing saddles I volunteered to help out with the programming, DB and website maintenance since I’m pretty good at that sort of thing and have many years of hands-on experience. I never got a reply back and I assumed it was because I was also banned from participating in FS as punishment for owning and riding a velomobile in the area.

Maybe if you charged FS members dues you could afford to off-shore support.

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@Vicegrip 178369 wrote:

BTW. I have ridden behind you plenty of times and you drive your electric car in the middle of both lanes. You have the habit of dipping one of the rear wheels into the bridal lane to let oncoming traffic proceed in their own lane. You take your 1/2 in the middle as the norm.

I wish I could post about a topic without others trying to hijack it into a conversation about me. At least this reply illustrates how different observers can have different viewpoints on what happened which is relevant to the topic.

First my tricycle has only one rear wheel so I suspect you meant that I dip one of my front wheels into the path. I do this when the oncoming traffic is walking or weaving on my side of the yellow line and I want to give them several feet of clearance. Of course if my wheel is in the bridle path I can’t be taking my half out of the middle of the road so your allegation is inconsistent. I do move to the left when passing walkers especially if they have a pet even if they are walking off the path so maybe you mistaken that as riding down the middle. When my lane is clear I try to ride so the left tire track is 1 foot to the right of the yellow line.

But enough about me. If one’s arm is 2 feet and another foot for wrist and fingers then passing cycles have to be pretty close for one to clothesline another with enough force to swipe them off the bike. Or, the contact is just a touch because otherwise the wrist and fingers would be broken if one hit a helmet at 30mph with a stiff hand.

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