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@jcflack54 130711 wrote:

Kenmore between Van Dorn and Seminary in Alexandria is signed for 15 MPH.

And enforced by physics, i.e. speedbumps!

But that’s not a publicly owned right-of-way, is it? There are numerous signs warning drivers the street itself is private and that on-street parking requires a permit. Owners can put up their own traffic signs on private property, though I don’t know how enforceable those are. In any case, it seems that the convenience to the residents of having two ways in and out outweighs the disadvantages of enabling some slow cut-through traffic as well.

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I don’t think I’ve ever seen a government held financially liable for a bicyclist’s death due to unsafe roadway design. Is the Indian Wells case a first in this regard? Especially noteworthy is that this partial liability was assessed by a jury even in a case where a drunk driver was also responsible. Interesting.

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Sounds like Lee and Fort Myer would be a great candidate for re-timing the signal cycle. If cars rarely ever come up Fort Myer during the last few seconds (and especially if the few that do are speeding U-turners), why not give a green to Custis trail users earlier?

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@Rootchopper 130465 wrote:

Easier fix is to lower the Old Town speed limit to 15 mph which is perfectly appropriate for the area and ticket the crap out of cars and the few cyclists that speed. Also, install more yield signs in place of the stop signs.

I agree, although I believe it’s presently not legal in Virginia for any speed limit to be less than 25 mph on a public street.

In Great Falls MT, they have a grid with a lot of completely uncontrolled intersections. Primary routes have traffic signals and ROW at their other intersections, but the uncontrolled treatment is used for an intersection between two minor streets. There are no signs, either stop or yield, at those intersections. If two vehicles approach simultaneously, the one on the right has right-of-way. The idea is that everyone is supposed to drive slow and should be ready to yield if necessary. Something like this might technically work for much of Old Town, but it would be difficult. Alexandria gets a lot of visitors that wouldn’t know how to navigate such junctions, plus it would require a big culture change.

I do think they should turn Royal Street into a legitimate bike boulevard with ROW and traffic calming to discourage through-drivers.

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@dasgeh 130039 wrote:

The ramp of which you speak is one of two for those using the TR Bridge non-HOV during HOV times. In other words, eliminating this ramp would force all non-HOV traffic onto the GWMP/Spout Run or Whitehurst/Key Bridge. That would be a HUGE, HUGE change.

Not true: non-HOV drivers on TR Bridge can also get off onto Route 50. If they then immediately exit at Lynn Street, that puts them in Rosslyn just a few blocks south of IOD anyway.

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@dasgeh 130033 wrote:

Why are you taking the Key Bridge? Stay on the trail, take the TR Bridge

It sounds like the OP is a reverse commuter. I find crossing over TR to be quite unpleasant already when going with the primary flow of traffic. If heading into town during evening rush, I avoid it and take Key instead because it’s even less pleasant to encounter multiple oncoming bikes. Others’ mileage may vary.

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@run/bike 129981 wrote:

So instead of getting all complicated, let’s push for mode separation via a tunnel (or flyover bridge…I don’t care) that allows everyone to be a winner.

For a few reasons, I’m not a huge fan of grade separation for this intersection. First, it would require new infrastructure. Second, lots of bicycles are turning there too, so you’d need to maintain an at-grade crossing option regardless (which might itself become more dangerous with fewer people crossing at grade).

The new forward-looking vision for Rosslyn intends to replace the skywalks and car-oriented streets in favor of at-grade crosswalks and street-level retail. Moving bikes and peds off of street level is inconsistent with this vision.

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@Steve O 130001 wrote:

Many of you have seen this before, but in case you haven’t, it’s a solution that addresses virtually all the problems with this intersection:

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/12248/redesign-could-improve-dangerous-rosslyn-intersection/

I have read your solution before, and I strongly support it, although I did not remember the details when I posted yesterday.

Your solution throws a new bone to drivers heading for Key Bridge, while mine posits the unnecessity of a replacement. But essentially we have both proposed the exact same thing for the IOD itself: banning right turns. (Reconfiguring IOD as you describe it on GGW is a great idea regardless of whether or not the solution includes a new off-ramp.)

So it would be worth studying these options side-by-side in terms of:

– infrastructure expense
– enforcement expense
– safety for all modes
– travel times for all modes
– congestion on Rosslyn streets
– induced demand (account for how the overall traffic level through here would depend on the street configuration)
– politics

It’s not obvious to me up front which is a better engineering solution. If it turns out that the vast majority of IOD turners are in group B (110 to Key Bridge) and that they would choose to drive through Rosslyn were this option to become unavailable, that would certainly tilt the equation in favor of building the new ramp you have described.

For what it’s worth, I rarely traverse IOD eastbound or westbound, but I do frequently ride through it northbound (going from Lynn St headed to Key Bridge). I use the street until the driveway curb cut just past IOD, then I take the sidewalk over the bridge. Signalizing the entrance from GW Parkway (and possibly combining it with the one from 66) would clean up another dangerous crossing just north of IOD. Heading home, I make a left turn from M Street onto the upstream Key Bridge sidewalk, so I avoid IOD entirely then.

Long-term, we need protected bike lanes on Key Bridge between the sidewalks and the vehicle lanes. The existing sidewalks (especially the downstream one) are far too crowded with pedestrians to be comfortably shared with bicycles. And the street is a very poor alternative because it is always either a traffic jam or else the drivers greatly exceed the speed limit.

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K Street also bridges over 395, so that might be your most convenient option, especially if you use the L Street cycletrack to cross downtown. You could try something like L to 11th to M to 4th to K.

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@PotomacCyclist 129968 wrote:

Instead of just prohibiting right turns off that ramp, VDOT could remove that ramp altogether.

I had not considered closing access to westbound Lee Hwy from that ramp as well, but after thinking about it, I agree with you. That movement also seems unnecessary. There would still be easy access to Rosslyn from either source. If coming from the TR Bridge, just follow 50 and exit at Lynn Street (or go via Georgetown as you describe). If coming from 110, use Wilson Blvd.

I agree that enforcement would be essential if the ramp were open while right turns were banned, but that would be very easy to do by camera.

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Here’s an alternate thought: how about completely prohibiting right turns from this off-ramp? Cars exiting the freeway would be required to go straight up Lee Hwy.

It always surprises me that so many people come off I-66 westbound to make this right turn. There are only two possible places these drivers can be coming from: either 110 northbound or the TR Bridge. And there are only two places they could be headed to: the GW Parkway northbound or the Key Bridge. Examining each combination:

A) 110 northbound to GW Parkway: You can simply get on GW Parkway earlier and avoid Rosslyn altogether. Exit at Arlington Cemetery and go around the inside portion of Memorial Circle.

110 northbound to Key Bridge: The obvious alternative is Wilson Blvd to Lynn Street. This could put a few more vehicles in the urban part of Rosslyn. Not likely to increase overall congestion though, since the Key Bridge itself and the light at M Street are often the real holdup.

C) TR Bridge to GW Parkway: Anyone doing this could just take the exit directly off the bridge to the parkway.

D) TR Bridge to Key Bridge: I wonder what fraction of these drivers fall into this group. This might be the quickest way from Constitution Ave to Georgetown, for instance. But VDOT and Arlington shouldn’t be enticing these drivers to cut across two bridges. This traffic would stay in DC if the IoD right turn were prohibited.

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No traffic signal should ever feature a phase where right-on-red is permitted followed by one where right-on-red is prohibited.

When drivers pull up to the stop line at a red signal where right-on-red is permitted, they immediately look to their left for gaps in traffic. If they see one, they go. If there is no gap, they go when they see the cross-traffic stopping because the light is changing. (A few exemplary drivers are so conscientious as to glance to their right for pedestrians also.) But one place they will not look is back up at the signal. Because at pretty much any intersection other than this one, there is no reason to do so.

A full ban on right-on-red here is needed.

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6:30pm yesterday

You: driving westbound on 2nd St S
Me: riding a CaBi northbound on S Irving St, approaching the stop sign at 2nd St S
You: making an extremely aggressive left turn onto Irving (much too fast and tight while using the oncoming lanes)
Me: reacting by veering toward the gutter (at this point I was still maybe 20 feet south of the intersection)
You: noticing me, suddenly braking and swerving onto your own side of the road
You: laying on your horn for the next few seconds as you continued on your way
Me: making painfully clear to anyone within earshot that I am not Dirt

For the record, in addition to the CaBi flashers, I was wearing multiple lights and multiple reflectors, including a strap-on headlamp that was pointed at you the entire time.

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It’s not just airport traffic.

Twice in the last several months, I’ve been riding on Wilson Blvd westbound between Rosslyn and Clarendon and encountered a car going eastbound. In both instances it was late evening with no traffic, and the drivers looked more confused than malicious. In each case, I tried to get the driver’s attention by waving but they remained oblivious.

I also once drove eastbound on Seminary Road on the high bridge over 395 and saw an elderly driver make a left in front of me from Kenmore heading toward the bridge. Which is illegal because there is no break in the median, so he became a salmon. This was a couple years ago, before the recent HOV ramp construction, when there were two lanes on each side of the median going over the bridge. He was clearly confused, but he at least understood my animated hand gestures out the window as we passed in opposite directions. In my rear-view mirror, I saw him start a multi-point U-turn. No other vehicles had yet crossed the bridge.

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Actually I’ve seen quite a few of these little signs around Alexandria. Not super easy to read (and this example should really be before the intersection rather than after it), but they do exist.

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