[lordofthemark]

1. IIUC VBF is currently discussing exactly what is a substandard width lane, and how to get standards accepted by LE across the Commonwealth. IF you have an issue with the details of a particular law, the best thing is to get involved with advocacy orgs like VBF. This is a fine forum for general musing and free ranging discussion, but the rubber hits the road on making things better by “doing the work” of advocacy. There is ALWAYS a shortage of volunteers, and seldom a shortage of people kvetching in the background

2. It’s always wise to be situationally aware on roads.

[lordofthemark]

@ImaCynic 210627 wrote:

The postings here so far clearly demonstrated the problem with the current bicycle laws – vague, inconsistent, and open to interpretation. The only consistency is that these are guaranteed to change whenever one pedals into another jurisdiction. These laws are confusing enough for a cyclist, so can one really expect a driver to know AND follow? I think not. An average cyclist/driver simply do not have the bandwidth or a law degree to parse all these while on the road.

Rules of the road need to be the same, for two wheels or four. I much rather see some real effort in creating a uniform set of traffic laws that span across jurisdictions and vehicle types than having to deal with these esoteric bike laws conjured up by those that likely have never pedaled an inch in their adult life.

1. Laws always require interpretation and that applies to all traffic laws. We can of course (and are) working to get clarification where needed in Virginia

2. Consistency across states is a good thing. That does not mean we should never change

3. Of course I do not count on others to follow the law. That applies whether I am riding, walking, or driving. I adjust my riding for my own safety, of course.

4. The new laws in Va were pushed by the Virginia Bicycle Federation. I can assure you they have pedaled, and also thought throug the implications of change.

If you want uniform laws, does that mean you want bikes to not be required to ride as far to the right as practicable, to be banned from all sidewalks and trails, and to be allowed on all interstate highways? The fact is we do make different laws for different classes of vehicles. There are good reasons for that, and it does not have to be confusing. We can improve driver education on such laws – and of course drivers will learn them better when we have more people on bikes.

[lordofthemark]

@baiskeli 210617 wrote:

New question – Virginia law still requires a single rider to stay to the right unless necessary for, say turning left, or when it is unsafe not to take the lane. That would still apply, I think. Only riding with a buddy next to you gives you the right to take the lane at any time. Do you think I’m reading this right?

Not sure.

[lordofthemark]

@ImaCynic 210614 wrote:

Again, why is there a double yellow? It usually means that there is insufficient line-of-sight for safe overtake. By passing this law, a driver may legally be able to cross it, but it does not reduce the danger involved in doing so. If an oncoming car appears during the overtake, the driver will likely swerve back into its own lane, right where the cyclist is. This kinda sucks for the cyclist, but hey, it is legal!

This is yet another unintended consequence of passing something that they believe it is safer for all. It is not.

Double yellows are striped based on space needed to pass motor vehicles, often large, generally fast. The amount of space needed to pass a cyclist is much less, and often the double yellows are striped conservatively.

Note Illinois passed a law similar to Virginia’s in 2017. If it has created major problems, I have been unable to find that in quick googling.

[lordofthemark]

@ImaCynic 210611 wrote:

Basic road cycling etiquette calls for switching to a single line whenever there are cars back. Insisting on riding two abreast while holding up traffic sends the wrong message and perpetuates the “cyclists do not care” stigma.

Double yellow means no passing when I last checked the traffic laws, so the notion that a car has to completely cross the double yellow to overtake a cyclist makes no sense. When put in this situation, a driver has two choices; 1) wait, or 2) squeeze around the cyclist without infringing on traffic violation, and I suspect the driver will most likely choose the latter as I would do the same. Three feet? Are you kidding me? Expecting a typical driver to know what three feet looks like is akin to a three-year old understanding the meaning of life. As I like to say, relying on traffic laws will kill you, every time.

The sense of road entitlement is pervasive among both drivers and cyclists, and to me this is so woven into the cultural fabric here that I don’t expect any real changes, regardless of what the law says.

The new law passed in Virginia requires drivers to change lanes to pass bikes if they cannot give 3 feet otherwise (and on a standard width lane, they cannot, even if cyclists go single file to the right). They have the right to cross a double yellow line when passing a human powered device such as a bicycle.

This is the law in Virginia.

And yes, I don’t expect drivers to be good at estimating distance. That is why I usually take the center of the lane, and why riding two abreast is good.

Will that create issues on two lane roads in rural areas? I dunno. Personally I almost never ride on two lane roads in rural areas except for the Great Pumpkin Ride.

Where I am much more likely to ride two abreast is on a street where we will be ahead of any given car for only a block or two, before reaching a bike lane or a turn – or on a road with two lanes in each direction, where cars can pass crossing the white striped line.

Note if OP was riding on Sligo Parkway in Chillum, that road has no center line per google street view.

[lordofthemark]

@FreakofNature 210578 wrote:

Hi,
been posted to the Pentagon and looking to find a place in the Arlington area, – probably around Pentagon City or Crystal City. Is it possible (and safe) to ride a bike to and from? Are there any specific bike lanes to the Pentagon?
Thanks in advance.

I don’t want to overemphasize how safe it is because I have friends advocating to make that area better, and I hate to undercut them in any way.

But. Lots of people bike to the Pentagon. Lots who do not work at the Pentagon bike on the Pentagon reservation, because it’s one of the best ways to get from that part of Arlington to DC (and vice versa)

The Pentagon reservation is almost adjacent to the Mount Vernon Trail (via a short side path, a little bridge, and then the road on the Pentagon reservation itself) The MVT connects to Rosslyn (in North Arlington) to Crystal City, and Old Town Alexandria, and, via the Four Mile Run Trail, to the southern edge of Arlington. It also connects to several bridges into DC.

There is also a trail that extends from the 9/11 memorial next to the Pentagon up to Rosslyn via a slightly different route.

You can access the Pentagon from due south, from Crystal City, via Long Bridge Drive. It has bike lanes a good part of the way, and will get improvements soon.

Another way in from due south, from Pentagon City, is via Fern Street. No bike lanes, but it’s usually not bad for a confident rider (though I only ride it off peak) It connects to various streets with bike lanes of varying quality (which is why my friends are pushing for improvements) Some of the bike routes are currently disrupted by construction of the new Amazon HQ2, I understand.

There are also bike commuter coffee clubs – one in Crystal City and one in Pentagon City. I haven’t been to either in over a year, because COVID, but I am sure someone will chime in to give the current details.

Biking between CC or PC and the Pentagon is definitely a good idea – though if you don’t mind a longer ride, there also options in the rest of Arlington, in Alexandria, even in Fairfax county that are quite bikeable (you could also ride in from DC, but the closer parts of DC tend to be more expensive than Arlington)

One caveat – usually for a ride that short CaBi, our local bikeshare system, would be a good option. But there is NO CaBi station at the Pentagon.

Personally my commute (which I intend to get back to after my second vaccine shot) is on the Mount Vernon Trail. But on days when we have coffee club in Pentagon City, I would ride Long Bridge Drive to Boundary Channel (on the Pentagon Reservation) to the Mount Vernon Trail, to DC. Note, in my experience the drivers around the Pentagon are the most careful and least reckless in the greater DC region.

[lordofthemark]

Sigh. I mean I guess I was hoping for something more like this

https://cdn.aarp.net/content/dam/aarp/politics/events-and-history/2020/08/1140-vj-day-times-square-flag.imgcache.rev8a0bd562ac30fea2b5b79db77f7004fc.jpg

but I suppose that was not a realistic hope. I guess I will have to arrange my celebratory return to ‘normal’ somewhat differently.

[lordofthemark]

@ursus 210444 wrote:

Sorry about the dislike. My error, although I dislike the progress.

Getting a like and a dislike on the some comment is one of the joys of this board 😮

[lordofthemark]

@ursus 210438 wrote:

Does anyone have an update on the status of White’s Ferry? The latest that I read was that it was sold and the new owners wanted to reopen it.

The new owners of the ferry, and the owners of the farm where the landing is, have not yet reached a meeting of the minds.

https://dcist.com/story/21/04/07/whites-ferry-reopening-could-be-pushed-into-2022-by-continuing-dispute-over-virginia-landing/

[lordofthemark]

I’d like to thank BicycleBeth for organizing this. This BAFS was my wimpiest since my first, so much had I oriented my riding around my commute, and so discouraged was I by not going to coffee clubs or on group rides (QOTM and I have been particulalry strict about COVID) and not having places to go into to warm up, etc. But the civil war competition kept me interested all winter. I ended up deciding not to focus on Civil war streets and markers in general, but to narrowly focus in on the Civil War markers connected to the fortifications around the capital in particular. I not only learned much about the defenses of Washington, got to see parks and so forth I did not know about but got to ride in places I never would have ventured otherwise (which is the great thing about these kinds of competitions) In particular after exhausting almost all the forts in NoVa south of Rte 50, I ventured into DC and got to ride in places EOTR I had ever ridden, or in some cases, I had never been at all, after living in this area for 28 years.

Congrats to the winners!

[lordofthemark]

@Brendan von Buckingham 210392 wrote:

If you ever see 3 cars arrive at a 4-way stop and execute it correctly according to the law, let me know. I’ll erect a silver Virginia history marker to commemorate the event.

“mostly”

[lordofthemark]

@Steve O 210375 wrote:

Including police officers

So I had an officer interaction a few years back on 4th Street SW, where I was making a vehicular left on to Virginia to head to the metro station. I forget what the guy did, honked at me, punishment passed or cut me off, something. There was an officer (not MPD, one of the many federal forces, I forget which, maybe FPS?) I said “I have the right to be in the left lane, I was turning left” He said I had gone to the left lane too soon. She did NOT ticket him, but did not say I was in the wrong – I think it’s my judgement when I need to get to the left, as long as its not the next block.

[lordofthemark]

@ImaCynic 210380 wrote:

Perhaps this has less to do with “bike” laws, but rather more with the core principle behind majority of today’s traffic laws; who has the Right of Way. Having a clear understanding of RoW is the key to a peaceful co-existence as folks tend to get upset only when their right of way is taken, or the appearance that it is being ignored or not observed. I’d argue that this is where the disparity exists between motorists and cyclists. A majority of cars stop at red light and stop signs, but the same can’t be said for cyclists, despite knowing what the law requires.

I would venture that a very large number of cyclists who will Delaware a stop sign won’t Idaho a red, and plenty who will Idaho a red on an all red phase, will not do so when there is cross traffic (and many of the folks who Delaware at stop signs don’t proceed against right of way) I don’t want to rehash debates about the exact numbers in each category. But I don’t think that is the only, or even main, source of “cyclist hate”. I offer up again the example of my co alums who mentioned taking the lane, not red lights. And the times I have been punishment passed or honked at when riding completely legally (and quite cautiously).

I would add that people who ride know WHY it is sometimes safer to proceed on an all red phase, but I don’t want to emphasize that, as I don’t agree that that is the main issue.

I do think that having more folks ride is the key to having more understanding of riding, and thus less hate.

[lordofthemark]

@Brett L. 210374 wrote:

The Venn diagram between what is safe and what is legal are often two very non-concentric circles. I always choose what is safe versus what is legal…

Depending on the jurisdiction, there may not be any tolerance for leaving the PBL. Depending on the speed and density of traffic on the road, a box turn might be more appropriate.

Yeah. Where there’s an actual protected intersection like that one in DTSS, I will do the full Copenhagen left, for the sheer joy of the infrastructure. I will occasionally do a box left even when there is no bike lane involved, if I judge the speed and volume of traffic to warrant that. It will all depend on the intersection and the conditions.

[lordofthemark]

@ImaCynic 210377 wrote:

I am not aware of any ordinances in the surrounding jurisdictions that require a cyclist to ride in the PBL. If so, can someone please share that link with me?

Theres an ordinance in Md requiring riding in a bike lane if it’s available (unless they have repealed that since last I heard) but it has a bunch of exceptions, and I am pretty sure making a left would be one of those.

[Author]

Posts