[Dewey]

@lordofthemark 175670 wrote:

I will need to let QOTM know that this still involves significant effort, as she sees the main reason to bike to be help with weight loss.

This jibes with a couple of exercise studies comparing METs expended during normal cycling with riding a Class 1 pedelec type of ebike :

Berntsen, S., Malnes, L., Langåker, A., & Bere, E. (2017). Physical activity when riding an electric assisted bicycle. International Journal of Behavioral Nutrition and Physical Activity, 14:55. doi: 10.1186/s12966-017-0513-z

Peterman, J., Morris, K., Kram, R., Byrnes, W., Peterman, J. E., Morris, K. L., & Byrnes, W. C. (2016). Pedelecs as a physically active transportation mode. European Journal Of Applied Physiology, 116(, 1565-1573. doi: 10.1007/s00421-016-3408-9

[Dewey]

Towing a trailer on Saturday when it was still windy my 250w motor averaged 17mph going with the wind, 13mph coming back facing the wind, lower powered motors take the edge off, but power does drop off as a battery discharges and experiences voltage sag, my guess is you got it near the end of its charge.

[Dewey]

Washington State latest to pass the ebike model legislation creating a 3-tier classification and permitting Class 1 & 2 riding on sidewalks. The article indicates this has been passed by 7 states so far and they’re lobbying another 8, VA & MD not on the list this year.

[Dewey]

Thanks to @huskerdont for posting this in the dockless bikeshare thread, e-scooters are being distributed around metro stations in DC. Popville commenter suggests they cannot be classed as a personal mobility device like a Segway because the wheels are in tandem hence not permitted in bike lanes.

[Dewey]

@Vicegrip 175045 wrote:

I wonder how many e-bikes will be on the road once the original battery takes a dump? At some point they will need a new battery.

There is a company in Nevada that can rebuild battery packs with replacement cells, this is very useful if you bought a custom designed frame integrated battery rather than a generic battery.

[Dewey]

@Judd 175002 wrote:

The first couple of times that I rode a ped-elec it was very uncomfortable on starts and while turning because the assist was kicking in at times that I didn’t necessarily want it to. I got used to it by the third ride.

Yes, magnet pedal cadence sensors act like a simple on/off motor switch and aren’t particularly responsive. For kit conversions I admire the pedal torque sensors Grin Tech sells though you have to drill a hole through your bottom bracket shell for the cable that connects to the controller. OEM systems like Bosch use multiple sensors and are very responsive starting and stopping in line with your pedalling. For the rest it’s an argument for having a throttle and why Class 2 ebikes are a good thing.

[Dewey]

@dasgeh 174956 wrote:

As a frequent runner on the Custis (scandal, I know), I much prefer being passed by cargo bikes (e- or not) than bikes with trailers (e- or not), because the riders with trailers don’t always seem to know where their trailers are in relation to them/ the people they’ve passed and/or aren’t always in control of where the trailer is going.

Lots of people out on the trails in this good weather, I know you agree a child trailer is an inexpensive way to get into family biking, so is a child seat of course. I don’t attempt to thread the needle between trail users when towing a child trailer as it’s too wide, on street that width pushes me to ride further from the gutter than I usually do so as not to strike a kerb stone, although with my clumsiness I think that might happen if I rode a long or mid tail cargo bike which is why I admire the thoughtfulness of models where you can remove the foot rails when not carrying children. I’ve found an articulated trailer useful to get around tight corners and carry groceries but awkward to back up.

[Dewey]

@dasgeh 174770 wrote:

Seems like someone who takes the position that a Class 3 ebike should not be on a trail because of its ability to go faster than what’s comfortable for people walking on trails needs to recognize that most people think ALL bikes can go faster than what’s comfortable for people walking on trails — which would lead to the logically conclusion that ALL bikes should be banned from trails.

I think trails should be shared, and we should focus on the behavior of trail users to make that work.

You’re right that line of thinking isn’t a reasonable position. Class 3 commuters are as likely as Class 1 and 2 to want to use safer bicycle infrastructure close in. Federal/states customs inspectors aren’t funded to identify and impound imports or go after the retailers who undermine legal ebikes. People who ride electric motorcycles on private land want those products. I agree it is anti-social behavior people are concerned about, so a combination of a legal structure and certification system for ebike sales, self-regulating behavior through education, speed limits and remote monitoring/regulating technology, better alternative bike infrastructure, and fines enforcement, could all be part of a compromise acceptable to most. I also recognize that change will require political will and money to happen or we’re stuck with a confusing local patchwork of conflicting laws, with ebikes being treated inequitably.

[Dewey]

@dasgeh 174755 wrote:

1) Throttle…is key to getting from 0mph to 10mph in these situations.
2)Power, try going uphill with 3 kids on your bike, or your overweight self on your trike with 250W.

…to make any bikes usable as a transportation option in this area, they have to be able to get to all the destinations people need transportation to. That includes some monster hills. That also includes routes where the only safe way to get there is the trail/sidepath.

The way to make biking work for everyone is to allow the tools that allow everyone to bike on the routes people need to bike on. And we need the trails to work for everyone, so REGULATE BEHAVIOR

1) Throttle: I chose not to fit the throttle with my kit motor to keep it a Class 1 pedelec, my knees don’t thank me when starting from a stop going uphill, also I love using the 3mph walk assist feature to help me push my bike up a ramp or up a kerb cut when towing a child trailer, and I’ve had a few close calls commuting to work where I’ve struck my pedal or bashed my derailleur into a sidewalk kerb stone when trying to ride in the gutter slowly past a line of cars on my heavy ebike, so I’ve come to appreciate how a Class 2 throttle would be very useful for people with knackered knees or heavy loads to get started or simply move slowly and keep balance without pedalling.

2) Power: I appreciate the US is more relaxed about ebike power than other countries for the reasons you give about needing varying levels of power to climb hills carrying or towing a load, I’m mostly happy with my 36v BBS01 250w motor although I have to stand on the pedals when towing a child trailer and groceries up the steepest parts of the Custis trail. At some point in the future I’ll probably swap out the motor core with a 48v BBS02 motor and battery from Luna and program the controller to keep power/speed under the 750w/20mph legal limit just so I can have the benefit of the extra climbing torque delivered by the wider stator. Regarding speed I’m a utility cyclist living close in so I could accept a lower EU style 15mph limit, but I recognize Class 3 speeds enable suburban commuters to travel distance and keep up with traffic so I’d like them to remain legal to ride on roads.

Personally I’d like Virginia, Maryland, and the District to adopt the 3-tier ebike classification and permit Class 1 and 2 on MUPs, MUTs, and sidewalks in line with the new ebike laws being adopted by other states. The ebike confiscations in NYC are made possible only because of the City’s local no-throttle law so I’m wary when jurisdictions carve out exceptions but recognize this may be necessary on some heavily pedestrianized areas and business district sidewalks and footpaths. I love pedal assist and how the technology of cadence and torque sensors enable motors to complement human biomechanical pedalling and climb hills, and I recognize the benefit of a throttle in some situations, but as other posters have pointed out we need to get along and that includes recognizing people don’t want either legal Class 3 ebikes or illegal electric motorcycles on trails or sidewalks.

[Dewey]

Less fog than a month ago but still a nice view on the ride to work
[ATTACH=CONFIG]16941[/ATTACH]

[Dewey]

@dkel 174732 wrote:

Does this look like one of those e-hubs? Is it because of the belt drive? It’s a steel frame with pretty average tubing, so it’s not as if it looks like it has a battery on it. What’s the deal?

I think you’re right the combination of an IGH and belt drive might confuse some people, but rear hub motors generally use a derailleur, and almost all ebikes with an IGH hub use a mid-drive or front hub motor. There’s only two rear hub motors that bolt onto an IGH gear hub, the Bionx PL250 HT bolted onto a SRAM IGH 3 is sold to OEM manufacturers in Europe but is unavailable to the public, the other is the TDCM bolted onto a Sturmey IGH 5 which is sold to the public here by Grin Tech and in Europe is rebranded and sold to OEM manufacturers by Accell, I was thinking the TDCM IGH would make an interesting DIY kit for converting a donor steel framed single speed city bicycle into a 5-speed IGH with a motor, but looking closer the motor design cannot use conventional torque arms because the axle is the gear hub’s Sturmey Archer flat axle and no motor torque is applied to it (some IGH hub internals aren’t strong enough to take motor torque), instead it just has one tab washer on the left side onto which all the motor torque is applied, this requires a frame with track style forkends or horizontal slotted rear dropouts, and you would want to keep power low or risk the washer bending the drop out and spinning out. In Europe Accell have put it on the Sparta R5E and they solved the mounting problem on that bike with a cut out behind the rear drop outs into which a custom torque arm is bolted on both sides, neat but a custom frame solution.

[Dewey]

@hozn 174710 wrote:

MUP-legal bikes

Like these two?
[video=youtube_share;jLjeYcwYHsA]https://youtu.be/jLjeYcwYHsA?t=35s[/video]

[Dewey]

@lordofthemark 174697 wrote:

It wouldn’t force a detour on Class 1 ebike riders.

It would be easier for me to commute south around Ft Myer to a future Long Bridge bicycle crossing after they finish Phase 2 of the Washington Blvd trail (Winter 2018/19), the Hoffman Boston connector under 395 (2022/23), and a PBL along Army Navy Drive to Long Bridge park (?), but all that’s a few years away.

[Dewey]

@Sunyata 174668 wrote:

I have to ask… Why can you not ride an e-bike across Key Bridge in the standard travel lanes? I can ride a regular bike there and I can drive a car there (though I never would), so why not an e-bike? One could also say the same about Memorial Bridge… Correct? So what is it that differentiates an e-bike in those situations? Sure, it might not be as comfortable as riding the trail across, but it is not illegal, unless I am missing something.

(Not that I am necessarily against e-bikes as transportation vehicles. More people on bikes is usually a good thing, as long as they are not jerks. I am just curious as to why lotm seems to think there is no legal way to get across the Potomac for e-bikes as the law currently stands.)

It’s not illegal to ride an ebike on the bridge travel lanes but not something that I feel comfortable doing on my <20mph 250w Class 1 pedelec in the absence of a striped bicycle lane. Honestly for a few dollars of paint Memorial Bridge can stand going on a road diet, it shouldn't take much away from the money congress has promised for the refurb, this was suggested by WABA a few years ago but was rejected by NPS with no reason given. DDOT appears to be backtracking on widening the sidewalk on Roosevelt bridge in the upcoming bridge works, and won't paint a bike lane on Key. The sidewalk paths are at present the only way I feel safe crossing the Potomac bridges so I would very much appreciate it be made legal for Class 1 and 2 ebikes. If you feel otherwise you are entitled to that opinion but then please agree with a reasonable accommodation like a bike lane on Memorial or Key if you believe that slower Class 1 and 2 ebike commuters must ride in the road.

[Dewey]

@anomad 174635 wrote:

How in the heck do dockless e-scooters get charged? I wonder if they’ll ever be like those robotic vacuum cleaners?

I think I read they are collected from the streets of Santa Monica every night and the batteries swapped out. But I like your thinking, it’s one use for those robot coolers that trundle around Georgetown, wait how would the robot get recharged…must rethink.

[Author]

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