Lights on trail courtesies

[Dirt]

@americancyclo 68550 wrote:

I’m still rocking my MiNewt 250 that I’ve had for years, and I only use the brightest setting for the part of my commute on the W&OD that is unlit before I get to ArlCo. Then I switch it down to low power. I know I can get a lot more lumen power for the $100 I paid for this a few years ago, but it’s more than enough light to comfortably ride around 15+mph on the local paved bike trails.

I love you, sir. If anyone ever pisses you off, I’ll loan you the light that has been nicknamed “The Tanning Booth” and you can vaporize anyone that crosses your path.

(Totally joking with this post. Please don’t take it seriously.)

[kkentium]

Having ridden around DC in the dark now for a week, I would just settle for people having lights period on their ride. I’m amazed how many people don’t want to pony up $8 for a simple bike light.

[Hancockbs]

@bobco85 68535 wrote:

So, this guy decides that he’s going to “help” by blinding you, too? Good thing there weren’t any other trail users near you guys, now that he’s effectively made 2 cyclists blind with his action.

The more I think about it, maybe he was doing a Gru “Freeze ray!” imitation rather than commenting on my light.

[americancyclo]

@Hancockbs 68565 wrote:

The more I think about it, maybe he was doing a Gru “Freeze ray!” imitation rather than commenting on my light.

For those of us that didn’t get the reference (me)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYfG2FwkVkM

[rcannon100]

@americancyclo 68575 wrote:

For those of us that didn’t get the reference (me)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYfG2FwkVkM

But, um, if how do you mount it to your handlebars…. and if you point it down at the ground in front of you…. wont it cause problems for other cyclists???

:rolleyes:

[Amalitza]

Am I the only one who just dims (ie, switches to low) my light for approaching cyclists/peds? I have a blindingly bright light. I mostly run it on medium on the trails which is still pretty bright– bright enough to be useful at least, and probably bright enough to be annoying to others. I do try to go for a balance of aiming down and to the right as much as possible while still getting good visual on the trail up ahead, and when someone is headed toward me, I will generally switch it to low which requires much less hands off the handlebars time than shielding until we pass. It’s annoying that turning it back up to high or medium requires cycling through OFF first, but it’s not THAT annoying. I figure that’s a reasonable balance between trying to see where I’m going and hopefully not blinding anyone. (Admittedly, this might get tiresome if I tended to ride on the trails at times (normal commuting hours?) when there’s more traffic out there, but this usually works for me).

I tried turning it on strobe once (while on the street, not trail) and it more or less blinded ME, so that didn’t turn out to be so useful…

[JFF]

@jabberwocky 68057 wrote:

My rules are: …Blinkies have no place on the trail on a bike….

Why no blinkies? My ride takes me down city streets, dedicated cycle tracks, multi-use trails and back on roads again…all on the way home in the dark, lit and semi-lit areas. I’m not about to stop and swivel my messenger bag’s blinkie and then my seat post blinkie to change settings time and again. I always shift my handlebar lights down/right when facing runners/cyclists, but it seems to me back facing blinkies don’t blind anyone coming up behind me.

I’m open to being wrong, tell me more?

[runbike]

@JFF 68611 wrote:

Why no blinkies? My ride takes me down city streets, dedicated cycle tracks, multi-use trails and back on roads again…all on the way home in the dark, lit and semi-lit areas. I’m not about to stop and swivel my messenger bag’s blinkie and then my seat post blinkie to change settings time and again. I always shift my handlebar lights down/right when facing runners/cyclists, but it seems to me back facing blinkies don’t blind anyone coming up behind me.

I’m open to being wrong, tell me more?

I fully agree. The low-powered blinkies (ie: planet bike-type) hurt no one. I do think that high-powered strobe front/tail lights are the real problem. I did my first night commute ever this evening (I only started bike commuting this past summer) and the only light-related annoyance I had was with someone’s high-powered tail strobe while waiting behind them for a safe pass. That was just annoying. Had no issues with anyone’s front helmet or bar lights, even the high-powered ones. Like someone else on the forum said, just keep focused on the side of the trail and it’s over in a matter of seconds.

[Dirt]

@JFF 68611 wrote:

I’m not about to stop and swivel my messenger bag’s blinkie and then my seat post blinkie to change settings time and again.

Just out of curiosity, why not? Does it take more than a few seconds to change? I’m not asking to be obnoxious, I just encounter a lot of people who don’t want to stop their run, ride or walk to do basic things that will be polite to others, increase their safety or increase their comfort. They’d rather just continue their journey. Does the few seconds it takes really make a huge difference? I still have some things that I choose not to stop and change… I totally get that feeling. I do tend to stop if it is something that affects others or my own safety. That’s just me though.

@JFF 68611 wrote:

but it seems to me back facing blinkies don’t blind anyone coming up behind me.

It completely depends on who you commute with. If no-one complains, then you’re probably okay. I’ve learned from this thread and from experience on the trail that I’m not the best judge of what offends or blinds people. If someone tells me that my light bothers them, then I’m pretty sure that it does. If you’re not hearing it, then you’re probably okay.

For folks who are offended by someone’s light configuration, it is very difficult to talk to someone about it in a way that doesn’t sound overly negative and confrontational. The time to interact is extremely brief. I’m still trying to find a way to communicate it. I think it is important to let people know though.

@run/bike 68631 wrote:

The low-powered blinkies (ie: planet bike-type) hurt no one.

See how it goes with your commute. I’ve had runners complain about a Bike Arlington front blinkie and ask me to put it on steady. For some people, any blinkie light up front is offensive. If the folks on your commute are cool with it, then by all means go for it!!! I generally don’t run a blinkie when I’m on the trail unless it is seriously dark, dumping rain and foggy…. and even then I don’t use one up front.

Thanks y’all for the great discussion!

[jabberwocky]

@JFF 68611 wrote:

Why no blinkies?

Because anyone who ends up going roughly your speed anywhere behind you is staring into a red strobe. Strobes are much more annoying to stare at than a constant light. And a strobing light actually makes it more difficult to judge position and speed. There is a reason that automobiles use constant lights, not blinking or strobing patterns.

I get that blinkies are good attention getters. When I’m on the road, I run a blinky and a constant light. On the trail, you really don’t need to get attention, since traffic around you is much slower and you aren’t competing with light pollution from cars.

[OneEighth]

A little test anyone can try at home—face a mirror in a dark room, point the strobe at the mirror and look straight ahead. That ought to give you a pretty good idea how oncoming trail users feel.
For an even better idea, try immediately running out of the room after strobing yourself without running into anything.

[Dickie]

@OneEighth 68656 wrote:

A little test anyone can try at home—face a mirror in a dark room, point the strobe at the mirror and look straight ahead. That ought to give you a pretty good idea how oncoming trail users feel.
For an even better idea, try immediately running out of the room after strobing yourself without running into anything.

I flashed myself in the bathroom mirror….. it was horrifying!

[TwoWheelsDC]

@OneEighth 68656 wrote:

A little test anyone can try at home—face a mirror in a dark room, point the strobe at the mirror and look straight ahead. That ought to give you a pretty good idea how oncoming trail users feel.
For an even better idea, try immediately running out of the room after strobing yourself without running into anything.

While in front of the mirror, call “bloody mary” three times. If she kills you, your light is too bright.

[thucydides]

I don’t think any amount of complaining about lights will ever make the slightest difference in aggregate behavior. This is because the concern over bright and flashing lights directly conflicts with people’s prerogative to see and be seen. Furthermore, telling people to treat trails differently from roads (e.g., use a strobe on a road but not on a trail) runs up against two things. The first is the fact that no trails — at least none for any extended length of time — completely insulate us from vehicle traffic (e.g., the frequent at-grade road crossings). The second is that everyone commutes by trail and road and, lets face reality here, many of us will tend to forget to shift our lights back and forth. It’s not just the annoyance factor that JFF discusses, but rather the simple tendency to forget. Frequently I’ll have a strobe on while travelling to the W&OD and then I’ll switch the strobe to low steady once on the trail. But sometimes I forget to switch or often I forget once I cross the TR bridge to switch to bright strobe so that that &%#$# Tenleytown Metro bus won’t run me over. Now I’ve got a horrible memory but I suspect I’m pretty normal in this sort of tendency to forget to switch lights.

I don’t mean to suggest that teaching and enforcing collective norms is completely impossible (as I still have hope for people calling their passes!), I just don’t think it’s going to happen in this case. Ergo, I regard bright lights in the same way I regard the sun. There’s nothing I can do about it making the sun dimmer so I work on strategies for dealing with it.

[Dirt]

I see a huge difference in people’s behavior in the last few years of commuting. A lot of people that I encounter daily do something to make their lights less blinding to approaching cyclists on the trail. That’s HUGE! Many people don’t use flashy lights, though some still do. That is improvement. Tons of people who didn’t used to wear reflective gear or lights when they run now do so on a regular basis. That is a change for the better. There will be folks who don’t change. I witnessed a guy with no lights and no reflective gear get off his bike and walk across the grass rather than deal with being offered free lights and a reflective vest last night. I’m sure he’s got a great reason for doing so. I’m pretty sure that I’m not going to convince him to change any time soon. I saw a lot of people change last night. Some changes will survive the week. A few will actually change their habits on a longer term basis.

If you forget to change your lights now and then, big deal! I forget quite often. But changing them occasionally makes the ride nicer for people around you occasionally. It is improvement. By trying to be a better member of the community we are setting an example… one that at some level is infectious. By saying “screw it, I’m gonna blast my flashing lights at full power regardless of what people say” (which I realize that you’re not doing) that is also an infectious example. Why not make a small effort to be a good example? … a positive force for change? How much effort does it really take? If you can come up with some good reasons to not set a good example, then I’m willing to listen.

Definitely take steps to deal with oncoming lights! It is the safe, wise thing to do. Taking those steps doesn’t mean that you can’t also set a good example for others. What does it hurt?

[Author]

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