Lights on trail courtesies

[hozn]

Yeah, I think bar-mounted lights are at least as much of a problem as helmet lights. From another perspective, a large percentage of oncoming joggers and cyclists that I pass say “thanks” when I cover my bar-mounted light. I take that to mean it is the right thing to do.

[GB]

@Subby 68058 wrote:

How do we get the message across?

I agree with Hozn, just tell them. As politely as possible you can say, “your light is extremely bright”.

To the ninjas you can say, “you are very difficult to see”.

Lead by example.

[Vicegrip]

@GregBain 68090 wrote:

I agree with Hozn, just tell them. As politely as possible you can say, “your light is extremely bright”.

To the ninjas you can say, “you are very difficult to see”.

Lead by example.

This is just about what I do. I run my bar mount light at the lowest setting that is needed for the speed I tend to go on the trails I am on. I just turn it away from oncoming traffic and then turn it back so I don’t need to keep a hand over it. I use my wicked witch of the west voice and exclaim “I’m melting!” during the side by side part of the pass by when I get torched by an over the top flame throwing 2,000,000,000 lumen “I can see Uranus from here with this light!” light.

Ninjas get a calm soft “You are hard to see” in a nice voice and every once in a while I drop a kind of loud and sharp “OMG I almost did not see you!” on the real stupid total blackout no nothing in full dark ones.

[mstone]

@rcannon100 68084 wrote:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE even if you are a big enough man that you can deal with it (and you think others should just lump it), please realize that we all have different light sensitivities. For some of you, maybe you just are more macho. As for me, if we are on a dark trail and your oncoming headlight is highbeam strobe, I am blind and I have no idea where the trail is. It sucks.

There’s really no reason to be demeaning or insulting to other people who are just trying to keep themselves safe on the trails. Maybe you just need a brighter light.

[dbb]

The takeaway message is that we all need to look at the bar mounted lights and ensure they are aimed at the trail and not at our fellow trail users. The dark mornings are an outstanding opportunity to do so.

[americancyclo]

@sjclaeys 68063 wrote:

if you need both hands for steering or braking or to see a ninja trail-user as jabberwocky points out.

If you’re using both hands to see ninja joggers, you’re probably too close and need a brighter light

[thucydides]

I tend to dissent from the majority view regarding trail lights, especially blinkies. I’d say a very small percentage of bike commuters commute solely by trail. In fact, I’d say the percentage is exactly zero unless there is someone out there who both lives and works right next to a trail. I suspect then that many people turn on their blinkies for the road part of the trip. Furthermore, virtually all of our local trails feature at-grade road crossings. You’d better believe I like having that blinkie at Lynn and Lee Highway. In my case I keep the blinkie lamp on my helmet, so I turn my head a tad when facing oncoming bike traffic and I can turn my lamp towards cars at places like L&L. But overall I’m not about to start begrudging folks for lighting themselves up. To me the message should be that people need to get proper lighting (ninjas on bike and foot are the FAR bigger problem I encounter on the trails) and learn to anticipate and correct the negative impact of the lighting on others.

[rcannon100]

PLEASE LISTEN. This is not a debate. We are telling you that on the trail – people with high beams and strobes are blinding US. Now you can say it doesnt impact you. You can say you ride on the road. You can say you have magic pixie dust – whatever. But the fact is, no matter how you bike – no matter how you are about to deal with this – there is a significant portion of US that you are blinding.

You can choose to continue to blind us – or not. But the fact that your eyesight is different than mine does not alter the fact that you are blinding me and making life on the trail dangerous.

Final note – it is irrelevant what portion of your ride is on the trail and what portion of your ride is on streets. What is relevant to this discussion is behavior on the trail. That can be 10% of your ride or 99% of your ride. Whatever the percent is, while on the trail, please dont use strobes – please dont use highbeams in the face of oncoming traffic – point your light at the trail and not at oncoming traffic – and if you have a light on your helmet, dont look at the face of oncoming traffic. I use lower Lumen LED lights that I switch from flash mode to solid the second I enter onto the trail (about 95% of my ride).

I am really glad for you that this doesnt impede your safety – it does mine.

[cyclingfool]

@dbb 68097 wrote:

The takeaway message is that I need to build up a new front wheel with a dynohub and my beloved Busch & Muller lights with their nice vertical cutoff and constant power source ASAP.

Fixed it for me.

[jabberwocky]

@thucydides 68121 wrote:

I tend to dissent from the majority view regarding trail lights, especially blinkies. I’d say a very small percentage of bike commuters commute solely by trail. In fact, I’d say the percentage is exactly zero unless there is someone out there who both lives and works right next to a trail. I suspect then that many people turn on their blinkies for the road part of the trip. Furthermore, virtually all of our local trails feature at-grade road crossings. You’d better believe I like having that blinkie at Lynn and Lee Highway. In my case I keep the blinkie lamp on my helmet, so I turn my head a tad when facing oncoming bike traffic and I can turn my lamp towards cars at places like L&L. But overall I’m not about to start begrudging folks for lighting themselves up. To me the message should be that people need to get proper lighting (ninjas on bike and foot are the FAR bigger problem I encounter on the trails) and learn to anticipate and correct the negative impact of the lighting on others.

I’m 100% road these days, but when I did a mixed road/W&OD commute my procedure was two taillights, one solid and one blinking for the road part, and I would immediately reach back and switch the blinky off once I hit the trail. Staring at a strobing taillight while following someone is just irritating, and its totally unnecessary on a MUP.

I don’t find blinkies very useful for road crossings on trails. A bright, solid headlight is what you want there (since cars are almost always looking at the front of your bike).

After years and years of night commuting and seeing a lot of cyclists from the seat of a car, I’m not a huge fan of blinkies in general. They are good for getting attention (which is important), but make it very hard to judge position and speed. Blinking headlights are especially bad, because thats not really what people expect on the road. A bright, solid light produces excellent results.

[Terpfan]

I recently turned mine back on for the MUPs after the tenth person in two days taking a turn horribly under the auspicies of claiming they didn’t know I was coming. Particularly on cloudy days when many cars have their lights on, I seem to apparently have the best urban camoflauge and had been forced off the trails twice in a two week period (MVT). But I kept it pointed at the ground. Perhaps it’s just the case of the typical elites being typical dbags, but I tend to prefer being known where I am.

In the city, I think it’s a bad idea to ride without it on. I’ve been cut off on the cycletracks by vehicles turning multiple times, but the frequency is much higher when my light is on steady or not on at all then when it’s on the blinky. I’m not sure why, but motorists seem to tune out most light except flashing/blinking lights. I suspect that’s why some of the crosswalks have the blinking lights these days rather than simply illimunating the crosswalk or the sign saying it’s there.

In deference to this thread, I’ll turn the pointed down blinky off again as it was for the entire spring and summer (save for really bad weather–ie a thunderstorm where I end up stuck in the middle of it).

[DismalScientist]

My commute is mostly road, but a little trail thrown in for giggles. I’ll ride with solid headlights on the bars and helmet and rear blinkies. I’ll turn off one headlight for trails without road crossings. On the Custis, I leave on the helmet light so I can follow the curves better. On the WOD I’ll keep on the bar headlight. On the Custis sidewalk and the WOD between Shirlington and Columbia Pike, I might keep both on because that is the equivalent of riding on the sidewalk and I want to be seen by drivers that might turn across my path. Helmet lights are good for road crossings because you can shine them in the face of drivers. As for rear blinkies, I ride the trail too little to change the pattern. In any event, I’ll be out of your range in a few minutes. If you can keep up with me and the blinkie bothers you, you deserve to suffer.:rolleyes:

[mstone]

@rcannon100 68127 wrote:

PLEASE LISTEN. This is not a debate. We are telling you that on the trail – people with high beams and strobes are blinding US. Now you can say it doesnt impact you. You can say you ride on the road. You can say you have magic pixie dust – whatever. But the fact is, no matter how you bike – no matter how you are about to deal with this – there is a significant portion of US that you are blinding.

And people are telling you that they pick a level of lighting that lets them safely see obstacles on the trail. Since you haven’t provided any guidance other than whining that some people have lights that you consider to be too bright, it isn’t clear what the way forward is. I suppose everyone could drive around completely dark to make you happy, but I don’t think that’s actually safe. Unless you can somehow quantify what “too bright” is, and then get everyone else to agree on a specific standard lighting level that meets peoples’ needs (that is, a plurality agrees that your definition of “too bright” does not intersect with their definition of “not bright enough”), you can scream until you’re blue in the face without actually having any impact.

It would also help the conversation if you’d stop belittling people who don’t just nod and agree with you. Unless you actually believe that there is pixie dust involved.

Another possibility is that if you, personally, can’t deal with common lighting on public roads and trails, it may be that you shouldn’t be on them at night if you feel that you are posing a danger to others.

[mstone]

@cyclingfool 68128 wrote:

Fixed it for me.

A Luxos U is on my covet list, but I can’t justify the cost of that & a dynohub at this point. I’m looking at getting a battery version of the IQ2 optics (wider than the older B&M lights, but still shaped with a vertical cutoff) once they’re readily available (not involving a sketchy web site or ordering from germany). That should address my remaining qualm with many of the german lights (ok for urban use, but too narrow for finding critters on the side of the trail).

[vvill]

Wear a cap or use a visor and you can hide from a lot of the environmental irritations that affect your vision, especially in conjunction with appropriate eyewear. This includes sunlight, dust, small bugs, blinding lights (from bikes and cars), sweat, light rain, cold wind, etc. I discovered this when I started using a cycling cap (my preferred option because the brim is just the right size) and I hate commuting without one now.

I think blinkies on the trail can be useful but it depends on the conditions. If it’s dark and raining heavily I think they’re justified. I’d say a bright front strobe is almost never necessary though.

[Author]

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