Lights on trail courtesies

[hozn]

@mstone 68137 wrote:

Since you haven’t provided any guidance other than whining that some people have lights that you consider to be too bright, it isn’t clear what the way forward is.

@rcannon100 68127 wrote:

while on the trail, please dont use strobes – please dont use highbeams in the face of oncoming traffic – point your light at the trail and not at oncoming traffic – and if you have a light on your helmet, dont look at the face of oncoming traffic.

This guidance *seems* fairly clear …

[ronwalf]

The RadBot 1000 taillight used to have a nice moderate pulse that was recognizable without being seizure inducing. I use it in conjunction with a solid tail light, which gives a better sense of distance. Current RadBots ditch that mode for a slightly more aggressive pattern.

[mstone]

@hozn 68145 wrote:

This guidance *seems* fairly clear …

Great! Now, define “highbeam”–what lux is that, measured from what distance? Define “point your light at the trail”–does the light have to be straight down/are we going for ground effects here? So far it boils down to “this one time, this guy’s light annoyed me, so it’s your fault I might run into someone”, which doesn’t provide any practical guidance to anyone. Am I too bright? I have no idea. Should I dim my lights beyond what I already have done? I have no idea. Should I ride around paranoid that my lights are too bright? I have no idea (but that sounds like a sucky way to go through life).

[hozn]

@mstone 68150 wrote:

Great! Now, define “highbeam”–what lux is that, measured from what distance? Define “point your light at the trail”–does the light have to be straight down/are we going for ground effects here? So far it boils down to “this one time, this guy’s light annoyed me, so it’s your fault I might run into someone”, which doesn’t provide any practical guidance to anyone. Am I too bright? I have no idea. Should I dim my lights beyond what I already have done? I have no idea. Should I ride around paranoid that my lights are too bright? I have no idea (but that sounds like a sucky way to go through life).

I think this is pretty obvious. If your light is bright enough for you to see when it’s dark (i.e. a “see” not “be seen” light) then you should cover it for oncoming traffic.

There will obviously be accepted violations (cases where it might be unsafe to move your hands from the brakes in cases of congestion, etc.), but this seems like a good place to start.

[cyclingfool]

@mstone 68140 wrote:

A Luxos U is on my covet list, but I can’t justify the cost of that & a dynohub at this point. I’m looking at getting a battery version of the IQ2 optics (wider than the older B&M lights, but still shaped with a vertical cutoff) once they’re readily available (not involving a sketchy web site or ordering from germany). That should address my remaining qualm with many of the german lights (ok for urban use, but too narrow for finding critters on the side of the trail).

Christmas is just a couple months away.

I build my own wheels now, so as far as the wheel goes, it’s just the material cost of the hub, spokes, and probably a new rim, so I can keep my current front wheel as a backup. Labor will be all mine. But there’s also the light which while getting cheaper (e.g., the Cyo now compared to a few years ago), they’re still more expensive than my current cheap battery-powered headlight.

The Luxos U is on my covet list, too, but I’ll undoubtedly end up settling on a Cyo N like I had before. I really liked my Cyo and was happy with its coverage, though I will concede that it could have had a wider throw. Besides the bigger beam, the Luxos has that nifty USB connection, though are some good quality, affordable alternatives available to the built-in USB charger on the Luxos or the bulky and expensive eWerk.

Pipe dreams for now sadly. Maybe by next year this time I’ll be

[mstone]

@hozn 68152 wrote:

I think this is pretty obvious. If your light is bright enough for you to see when it’s dark (i.e. a “see” not “be seen” light) then you should cover it for oncoming traffic.

Really? The second post in this thread, by you, says “cover or reduce power on your bar-mounted lights”. So, what’s the approved power level above which I’m an evil person?

I think covering a light is a flat-out ridiculous expectation. I certainly don’t want people waving their hands around in front of their light while they’re passing me, I want them to have their hands on the handlebars. The key should be whether the lights are directing an unreasonable amount of light into the eyes of oncoming traffic. Unfortunately, that’s a really hard question to answer. I think that the best that can be done is to simply ask that people be aware of the issue and try to make sure their lights are directed appropriately. I think that’s been covered sufficiently on this forum, and we don’t need the periodic sturm und drang and hysterical tales of danger. It can also be done in a reasonably polite fashion; there’s obviously a range of opinions from reasonable people, and bullet lists of personally-approved approaches under a heading that amounts to “you suck if you don’t do things exactly this way” seem misguided.

[mstone]

@cyclingfool 68155 wrote:

Besides the bigger beam, the Luxos has that nifty USB connection

In a handlebar-mounted control switch, no less! And daytime running lights! And speed-sensitive auto-adjust! (Yeah, I’m drooling.)

[Vicegrip]

@mstone 68156 wrote:

Really? The second post in this thread, by you, says “cover or reduce power on your bar-mounted lights”. So, what’s the approved power level above which I’m an evil person?

I think covering a light is a flat-out ridiculous expectation. I certainly don’t want people waving their hands around in front of their light while they’re passing me, I want them to have their hands on the handlebars. The key should be whether the lights are directing an unreasonable amount of light into the eyes of oncoming traffic. Unfortunately, that’s a really hard question to answer. I think that the best that can be done is to simply ask that people be aware of the issue and try to make sure their lights are directed appropriately. I think that’s been covered sufficiently on this forum, and we don’t need the periodic sturm und drang and hysterical tales of danger. It can also be done in a reasonably polite fashion; there’s obviously a range of opinions from reasonable people, and bullet lists of personally-approved approaches under a heading that amounts to “you suck if you don’t do things exactly this way” seem misguided.

Commom sense. Do the best you can to be considerate and safe. What and how depends on the conditions. The goal is to not wash out the eyesight of oncoming cyclists. Focused on the goal and the rest takes care of itself.

[americancyclo]

@jabberwocky 68130 wrote:

blinkies make it very hard to judge position and speed.

This is my real issue with lighting on the trail. I can live with the lumen escalation war, but the blinkies make distance judging difficult for me too.

[americancyclo]

@Vicegrip 68162 wrote:

Commom sense. Focus on the goal

Are you new to the internet, sir? :p

[mstone]

@Vicegrip 68162 wrote:

Commom sense. Do the best you can to be considerate and safe. What and how depends on the conditions. The goal is to not wash out the eyesight of oncoming cyclists. Focused on the goal and the rest takes care of itself.

Yup, I think that sums it up in a nicely reasonable fashion.

[JimF22003]

I got yelled at the other night. Maybe it was by one of the yellers in this thread? No need to fess up if it was you, but the comment was to the effect that I was “going to kill someone with that thing.”

First, the light was on the 2nd-lowest steady setting. But even at that I ALWAYS repoint or cover the light if it’s after sunset. I’m the most conscientious person I know about doing this. Seriously.

Second, it was THIRTY MINUTES before sunset. There was tons of ambient light. It was out in the open, and not going through an underpass or something.

There is no way in hell that this light could have caused a problem for anybody. It could have been a helicopter-mounted searchlight, and at that time of day it wouldn’t have been an issue. The only reason I didn’t cover it was that I actually forgot it was on. It wasn’t doing anything to light up the trail in front of me. It was completely washed out by the ambient light.

I guess somebody was trying to make a point. Point taken, but it was kind of a dumb point. And rude.

[hozn]

@mstone 68156 wrote:

Really? The second post in this thread, by you, says “cover or reduce power on your bar-mounted lights”. So, what’s the approved power level above which I’m an evil person?

My metric is “bright enough for you to see”. My lowest setting is useless for seeing, but provide some “be seen” value. … But I just cover my light.

@mstone 68156 wrote:

I think covering a light is a flat-out ridiculous expectation. I certainly don’t want people waving their hands around in front of their light while they’re passing me, I want them to have their hands on the handlebars.

Well, that’s you. Others (like me) want people to cover, or otherwise re-direct, their lights.

I agree that this horse is dead. In the end, some of us are simply saying that we don’t like being blinded by oncoming traffic. It is inconsiderate at best and potentially endangering. Whether this is your experience or not is not relevant.

You are obviously free to behave however you like. If you have a common-sense solution that isn’t earning you angry comments on the trail, then stick with it!

[mstone]

@hozn 68170 wrote:

If you have a common-sense solution that isn’t earning you angry comments on the trail, then stick with it!

Judging from the post just above yours, that might not be a good metric either.

[bikeeveryday]

My experience is that one person’s common sense is another’s anger-inducing point, so I have pretty much decided to 1) run my lights as I feel appropriate for the situation, and 2) averting my eyes, and refraining from commenting on the way on-coming cyclists are running their high beams (especially since it is literally a few second encounter per cyclist).

@mstone 68172 wrote:

Judging from the post just above yours, that might not be a good metric either.

[Author]

Posts