Lights on trail courtesies

[Hancockbs]

@jabberwocky 68130 wrote:

I don’t find blinkies very useful for road crossings on trails. A bright, solid headlight is what you want there (since cars are almost always looking at the front of your bike).

Pot, meet kettle.

[Hancockbs]

@mstone 68137 wrote:

It would also help the conversation if you’d stop belittling people who don’t just nod and agree with you. Unless you actually believe that there is pixie dust involved.

Pot, meet kettle.

[jnva]

@TwoWheelsDC 68177 wrote:

And that’s why you don’t yell…

LOL I love that show!

[dasgeh]

I do think ambient light is an important consideration — when it’s pitch-black, encountering a super-bright blinkie light is dangerous. When it’s daylight, it’s at worst annoying. And there’s everything in between. My eyes are pretty sensitive, so I adapt my behavior to what I would want others to do for me. Of course, I don’t see me, so I try to watch others’ body language (no one has ever said anything) to see if I’m blinding anyone.

I run a bright, bar mounted light that I point down (45 degrees, maybe?) when I’m on the trail and up when I’m on the road. It has a “daytime running mode” which is mostly steady with some very quick flashes to lower light (but not off). When it’s light out, I leave it on that, and when it’s dark out, I try to change it to steady when I’m on the trail (probably succeed around 60-75% of the time). I don’t think that bothers others.

I run a small light on blinkie most rides for the whole ride. I would be surprised if something so low bothers someone, but if anyone ever told me it did, I would try to turn it off on the trails. I’d probably remember 60-75% of the time.

I run a fairly bright rear light on blinkie most rides for the whole ride. I would be surprised if something so low bothers someone, but if anyone ever told me it did, I would try to turn it off on the trails. I’d probably remember 60-75% of the time. I also have a Bike Arlington red light that I run on blinkie on my helmet.

When I encounter someone whose lights are too bright* on the trail, I slow WAY down, because I can’t see, and riding fast when you can’t see is dangerous.

*Too bright: I don’t have a number for you, but I can tolerate a brighter light on steady. If it’s blinking, “too bright” is less bright.

On talking to others: if I’m offending others, I would hope that they would politely point that out. I try to assume everyone’s trying to be considerate and just don’t realize there’s a problem. So if there’s a good chance (e.g. stopped at Lee and Lynn), I’ll say something like “you’re blinking bright light really blinded me on that dark part of the trail” or “it was really hard to see you on that dark part of the trail”. I try to have extra blinkies to hand out to the latter crowd.

[KLizotte]

Seems to me most of the problem comes from people running handlebar mounted lights. Would make far more sense for manufacturers to come up with something that allows a lower attachment on the bike. Let’s face it, car headlights are a lot brighter but rarely cause a problem when driving because they are lower than most driver eyeballs (though there is a real problem with SUVs coming at some cars).

[CaseyKane50]

Here is a mount that attaches to an eyelet and then you attach your light to the mount.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3979[/ATTACH]

[oldbikechick]

OK, the horse is almost beaten to death, but I think it is safe to say that no one is probably blinding anyone on purpose, but we are all experimenting with what works and what doesn’t for safety, being able to see, etc. I have no idea what my light looks like. I think it is angled down, but who knows. No one has ever complained. I never put it on blinky mode because the one time I did that, on the street, just the reflection of the flashes off other things nearly blinded ME. Why on earth would they make a light that does that? Of course, that one day I did have it blinking, in the early daylight, I still had a car pull out right in front of me. My sense is that I am under-illuminated for the road part of my commute, and about right for the trail. I think telling folks nicely if their lighting choice bothers you is probably a good solution. Otherwise, how would we know? I am considering some Christmas lights, but hopefully those won’t be too bright

[CPTJohnC]

These threads always leave me with a vague feeling of disquiet, in large part because of the seemingly polar opposite reactions to bright lights between the ‘They make me instantly blind’ and ‘I look away and it works just fine’ types. Despite my advanced age, I fall mostly into the second camp, and try to be considerate of the first. I suspect that glasses wearers might be more susceptible to dazzle than folks who do not need vision correction?

Blinking strobes on the front of a bike are a much greater problem for me, because it is nearly impossible to successfully look away — they draw your eyes, and if they aren’t a very fast strobe, they make it very challenging to know where not to look. I’ve only occasionally experienced unpleasant levels of discomfort from a steady light, and it is generally the case that I can successfully avert my eyes. I wonder a bit about the blinding factor of bike lights versus the apparent tolerance of car headlights — unless those folks never ride on dark streets? Yes, I understand the lack of shaped beams on most US bike lights, but in terms of actual brightness (which seems to be a large part of the concern), car headlights out shine every bike light I’m aware of…

As for my own riding, and a portion of the cause of my disquiet: I have two fairly bright front lights (theoretically rated at 750 and 1100 lumens on max, but I almost never run them at max, and they’ll only support max brightness for a few minutes – not the 1.5-2 hours claimed – and I doubt the lumen claims are accurate). I run one on the helmet and one on the bars, using the helmet light as my primary “to see” light, and the bar light as my ‘be seen’ when it is truly dark. I don’t generally run the helmet light on trails unless I’m alone, but therein lies the concern: By the time I get out to Falls Church and Vienna, it is frequently quite dark and at these times I am often one of the very few trail users. As such, I turn my helmet light on if there’s no one else in view on the trail, so that I can see potential hazards (including animals, debris, and the oft mentioned trail ninjas, dog walkers, etc…). I have, on occasion, been ‘surprised’ by cyclists entering the trail or otherwise seeming to ‘pop from nowhere’ and it is often a challenge to get my lights dimmed/turned off/ covered in order to be courteous. Further, it is sometimes the case that I begin to cover or re-aim my lights out of consideration for my fellow cyclists, when some obstruction or other concern requires my hands to be on the bars, steering the bike, not messing with lights.

I could go back to much lower powered lights, but I don’t find those adequate to see well on dark trails, or to give me a real warm and fuzzy on the suburban streets. I try to be courteous, but sometimes there’s not really a solid solution. My helmet light is simple – I can always point my head in a direction that doesn’t shine in the oncoming riders eyes. But the bar light goes where the bike is pointed. Again: I try to be courteous, but there are times when I find it not really possible. The worst, in my view, is riding at night on the Towpath; I just can’t bring myself to remove my hands from the bars to shield a light while I’m worried about the large rocks, loose sections and sheer drop to water, but I also don’t feel comfortable running without bright-enough-to-see lights for the same reasons. It is rare that I meet oncoming cyclists, but rare is not never.

What do the “I’m blinded” folks suggest for these situations?

[jabberwocky]

When I started commuting in 2005, I ran my Light and Motion ARC HID light (which I already owned for night mountainbiking). I think those old HIDs were rated for 650 lumens or so. It was certainly bright.

I upgraded ~5 years ago to the light I still have, a Dinotte 800L, which is rated for 800 lumens on high.

Both the ARC and the 800L have nice wide beams. Both were mounted on the bars for commuting, and the bar mount has a swivel so I just reach up and angle it off to the right when there is oncoming traffic. The edge of the beam still allows me to just barely see ahead, and whoever is oncoming is getting very little light in their face.

I’m always incredulous when people say they commute with 300 lumen lights and don’t see a need for more. Maybe I just ride faster than those people (or maybe my night vision sucks), but I find that when I’m cruising at speed (especially on descents) I’ll run the lights on high to get adequate vision. The Dinotte has a handy switch that allows alternating between modes, and I’ll usually cruise on medium and switch to high when I’m going quicker.

These days I’ve also added a magicshine clone (rated for 1000 lumens, but realistically probably more like 700-800) as a throw light. But I don’t ride the MUPs at night anymore. My commute these days has several hills where I routinely hit 35+mph descending, so being able to throw 1500 lumens out in front is handy.

[Terpfan]

@jabberwocky 68274 wrote:

When I started commuting in 2005, I ran my Light and Motion ARC HID light (which I already owned for night mountainbiking). I think those old HIDs were rated for 650 lumens or so. It was certainly bright.

I upgraded ~5 years ago to the light I still have, a Dinotte 800L, which is rated for 800 lumens on high.

Both the ARC and the 800L have nice wide beams. Both were mounted on the bars for commuting, and the bar mount has a swivel so I just reach up and angle it off to the right when there is oncoming traffic. The edge of the beam still allows me to just barely see ahead, and whoever is oncoming is getting very little light in their face.

I’m always incredulous when people say they commute with 300 lumen lights and don’t see a need for more. Maybe I just ride faster than those people (or maybe my night vision sucks), but I find that when I’m cruising at speed (especially on descents) I’ll run the lights on high to get adequate vision. The Dinotte has a handy switch that allows alternating between modes, and I’ll usually cruise on medium and switch to high when I’m going quicker.

These days I’ve also added a magicshine clone (rated for 1000 lumens, but realistically probably more like 700-800) as a throw light. But I don’t ride the MUPs at night anymore. My commute these days has several hills where I routinely hit 35+mph descending, so being able to throw 1500 lumens out in front is handy.

Maybe you ride faster or maybe you have more downhill on the way home . I say this as someone confronting the big hill on the way home. I’m pretty sure even a penlight would work given how slow I go at that point.

[vvill]

@jabberwocky 68274 wrote:

I’m always incredulous when people say they commute with 300 lumen lights and don’t see a need for more. Maybe I just ride faster than those people (or maybe my night vision sucks), but I find that when I’m cruising at speed (especially on descents) I’ll run the lights on high to get adequate vision. The Dinotte has a handy switch that allows alternating between modes, and I’ll usually cruise on medium and switch to high when I’m going quicker.

Yeah I think 500 lumens is about the minimum I’d want for a true “to see” light. It depends a little if you’re on an unlit trail/road vs in the city, but out in the ‘burbs not many roads are completely well lit. And also my night vision sucks.

I have two of these made-in-China cheapies. Don’t know how accurate the mfg quoted lumens of 900 is, but they do the job for me.

[mstone]

In thread context, remember that the down side to the cheap flashlight solution is that the beam is round and will throw a lot of light upward, off the road.

[jabberwocky]

@vvill 68286 wrote:

Yeah I think 500 lumens is about the minimum I’d want for a true “to see” light. It depends a little if you’re on an unlit trail/road vs in the city, but out in the ‘burbs not many roads are completely well lit. And also my night vision sucks.

The roads I ride are generally completely unlit. And lots of them have rough pavement and holes and stuff that I try and avoid hitting (I have most of their general locations memorized, but when you’re cruising downhill at 30mph and you know theres a pothole coming up, having a bunch of light on the front definitely seems like a good idea).

And personally, when I’m on the road, I want my light to be generally competitive with other vehicle lights. Humans are creatures of routine. If your light is significantly dimmer than what they are used to seeing, you’re a lot more likely to be mentally classed as “not a vehicle” and ignored. Conversely, if your light resembles what a car or motorcycle has, its much more likely that motorists will see you as a vehicle and pay attention to you.

For reference, your average halogen car headlight is generally in the 800-1500 lumen range.

[Jason B]

I wouldn’t use it on the WOD and the such, but for back woods and dark open roads, this cheap knockoff gets pretty good reviews http://www.amazon.com/Lumen-Bicycle-HeadLight-Flashlight-Headlamp/dp/B006QQX3C4/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A5WO6IE2K5AZW
My buddy has it and likes it and for $20 I ordered one.

[jabberwocky]

@Jason B 68292 wrote:

I wouldn’t use it on the WOD and the such, but for back woods and dark open roads, this cheap knockoff gets pretty good reviews http://www.amazon.com/Lumen-Bicycle-HeadLight-Flashlight-Headlamp/dp/B006QQX3C4/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A5WO6IE2K5AZW
My buddy has it and likes it and for $20 I ordered one.

Thats one of the magicshine knocks offs. I have a similar one. The build quality (especially on the battery) has a bit of a “built in a garage” vibe, but it works fine. I find the beam very narrow to use by itself though. Its very much a spotlight rather than a flood. Some people sell diffusing lenses, but I’ve not used on personally.

[Author]

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