e-Bikes – Let’s talk

[Dewey]

@Judd 174602 wrote:

They launched e-bikes recently too.

As I’m from England I chuckled they chose to call them Lime-E

[Dewey]

@anomad 174635 wrote:

How in the heck do dockless e-scooters get charged? I wonder if they’ll ever be like those robotic vacuum cleaners?

I think I read they are collected from the streets of Santa Monica every night and the batteries swapped out. But I like your thinking, it’s one use for those robot coolers that trundle around Georgetown, wait how would the robot get recharged…must rethink.

[Judd]

@Dewey 174660 wrote:

As I’m from England I chuckled they chose to call them Lime-E

I’m tired of all of those other dockless scooters causing scurvy.

[Sunyata]

@lordofthemark 174603 wrote:

Current laws limit ebikes in ways that are problematic to law abiding ebike users – currently for example there is no legal way to ride them across the Potomac from NoVa to or from DC.

I have to ask… Why can you not ride an e-bike across Key Bridge in the standard travel lanes? I can ride a regular bike there and I can drive a car there (though I never would), so why not an e-bike? One could also say the same about Memorial Bridge… Correct? So what is it that differentiates an e-bike in those situations? Sure, it might not be as comfortable as riding the trail across, but it is not illegal, unless I am missing something.

(Not that I am necessarily against e-bikes as transportation vehicles. More people on bikes is usually a good thing, as long as they are not jerks. I am just curious as to why lotm seems to think there is no legal way to get across the Potomac for e-bikes as the law currently stands.)

[lordofthemark]

@Sunyata 174668 wrote:

I have to ask… Why can you not ride an e-bike across Key Bridge in the standard travel lanes? I can ride a regular bike there and I can drive a car there (though I never would), so why not an e-bike? One could also say the same about Memorial Bridge… Correct? So what is it that differentiates an e-bike in those situations? Sure, it might not be as comfortable as riding the trail across, but it is not illegal, unless I am missing something.

(Not that I am necessarily against e-bikes as transportation vehicles. More people on bikes is usually a good thing, as long as they are not jerks. I am just curious as to why lotm seems to think there is no legal way to get across the Potomac for e-bikes as the law currently stands.)

Pardon, I misremembered an earlier discussion way upthread. Both Key Bridge and Memorial Bridge general travel lanes are legal for ebike users. And probably not that uncomfortable for class 3 ebikes, and for the stronger and more confident class 1 ebike riders (especially if the latter are not hauling a trailer).

As a policy proposal, I would like to see a legal sidepath route for Class 1 ebikes across the river near downtown. Assuming we DO get a wide sidepath on the new Long Bridge, that would be the best place. In the absence of that, I would want a crossing on at least one of the others.

I would continue to ban class 3 ebikes from the sidepaths on the bridges to downtown. I would allow them on the Wilson Bridge sidepath, as there is no other direct route from Alexandria to PG, and they are not allowed in the general travel lanes on that bridge. (Changing the rulesa about bikes on the water taxi might be an alternative though)

[lordofthemark]

@Judd 174625 wrote:

Alls I know is that them Jump bikes are pretty fun to ride. The current offer code for anyone that wants to get some experience riding a pedelec to help form their arguments that e-bikes are great or evil is JUMP4WABA

I have ridden ebikes on the flat, around Hains Point, but I feel to really evaluate them better, I need to ride up some hills. AFAIK Jump bikes are not supposed to be taken out of the District. Can you suggest a hill in the District, of the sort where I would be absolutely uncomfortable riding a human powered bike with following traffic (note I am weak on hills) but where a Jump bike would make all the difference?

[DCAKen]

@lordofthemark 174683 wrote:

I have ridden ebikes on the flat, around Hains Point, but I feel to really evaluate them better, I need to ride up some hills. AFAIK Jump bikes are not supposed to be taken out of the District. Can you suggest a hill in the District, of the sort where I would be absolutely uncomfortable riding a human powered bike with following traffic (note I am weak on hills) but where a Jump bike would make all the difference?

Here are a couple in Rock Creek Park that fit the bill

• Tilden Street – This has a bike lane
• Ridge Road – Currently closed to cars as part of the Beach Drive Rehabilitation project
• Ross Drive – Also closed to cars

[hozn]

@Sunyata 174668 wrote:

I have to ask… Why can you not ride an e-bike across Key Bridge in the standard travel lanes? I can ride a regular bike there and I can drive a car there (though I never would), so why not an e-bike? One could also say the same about Memorial Bridge… Correct? So what is it that differentiates an e-bike in those situations? Sure, it might not be as comfortable as riding the trail across, but it is not illegal, unless I am missing something.

(Not that I am necessarily against e-bikes as transportation vehicles. More people on bikes is usually a good thing, as long as they are not jerks. I am just curious as to why lotm seems to think there is no legal way to get across the Potomac for e-bikes as the law currently stands.)

I assume that the argument is simply that it’s less comfortable. I’ve ridden across key bridge many, many times. And memorial bridge once. But if the argument for the high-output e-bikes is that they can go fast to blend into traffic, I say that’s a two-sided coin and am all for them getting to use that special privilege to ride with cars in the road across the bridges

[dasgeh]

@hozn 174691 wrote:

I assume that the argument is simply that it’s less comfortable. I’ve ridden across key bridge many, many times. And memorial bridge once. But if the argument for the high-output e-bikes is that they can go fast to blend into traffic, I say that’s a two-sided coin and am all for them getting to use that special privilege to ride with cars in the road across the bridges

Really? Given that a large portion of the early adopters of e-bikes have been family bikers, you’re all for forcing people with kids on their cargo bikes on the Memorial and Key Bridges?

I ride on Lee Hwy daily, and I would not ride on Memorial Bridge in the travel lanes (except when closed to cars – then it’s awesome). There are probably times I’d be ok on Key, but not the majority of the time.

[dasgeh]

@lordofthemark 174682 wrote:

Pardon, I misremembered an earlier discussion way upthread. Both Key Bridge and Memorial Bridge general travel lanes are legal for ebike users. And probably not that uncomfortable for class 3 ebikes, and for the stronger and more confident class 1 ebike riders (especially if the latter are not hauling a trailer).

As a policy proposal, I would like to see a legal sidepath route for Class 1 ebikes across the river near downtown. Assuming we DO get a wide sidepath on the new Long Bridge, that would be the best place. In the absence of that, I would want a crossing on at least one of the others.

I would continue to ban class 3 ebikes from the sidepaths on the bridges to downtown. I would allow them on the Wilson Bridge sidepath, as there is no other direct route from Alexandria to PG, and they are not allowed in the general travel lanes on that bridge. (Changing the rulesa about bikes on the water taxi might be an alternative though)

Why force a huge detour on ebike riders? That’s just going to push more people off of bikes and into cars (making the city less safe for people on bikes) or have more people ignore the law.

[hozn]

@dasgeh 174694 wrote:

Really? Given that a large portion of the early adopters of e-bikes have been family bikers, you’re all for forcing people with kids on their cargo bikes on the Memorial and Key Bridges?

I ride on Lee Hwy daily, and I would not ride on Memorial Bridge in the travel lanes (except when closed to cars – then it’s awesome). There are probably times I’d be ok on Key, but not the majority of the time.

Well, I was only half-serious and only talking about the high-power-output (“class-3”) e-bikes, and specifically referring to the “class-3-makes-people-comfortable-in-traffic” argument. I think we have quite different perspectives on this, though, as cargo e-bikes account for a tiny fraction of the e-bikes I have ever encountered and 0% of the ones I see on a regular basis on my commute. I guess there are lots of people riding box/cargo e-bikes into (or out of) the city with kids? That surprises me a bit, but I’m sure there are home/work/daycare geographic configurations where that makes sense.

From the length of this thread, I’ll conclude that we lack some data that would inform the discussion on where e-bikes should and shouldn’t be permitted (and how classes factor into this).

A few that might be nice to know:
– What are the median speeds of traditional and e-bike cyclists?
– What are the accident rates (cyclist-cyclist, cyclist-pedestrian, etc.) for traditional and e-bike cyclists?
– What are the types/classes of e-bikes actually being purchased and used for commuting?

Given the lack of data, I’d default to voting for anything that implements the class-based guidelines of California and other states. I’m also perfectly fine with the status quo, though I recognize that e-bike usage is really taking off and I suspect the status quo won’t be acceptable to most trail users for much longer.

[lordofthemark]

@dasgeh 174695 wrote:

Why force a huge detour on ebike riders? That’s just going to push more people off of bikes and into cars (making the city less safe for people on bikes) or have more people ignore the law.

It wouldn’t force a detour on Class 1 ebike riders. Nor on Class 3 ebike riders who are willing ride the general travel lanes (unless you mean that detouring from 14th Street bridge to memorial bridge is a huge detour) It would be a problem for that subset of Class 3 riders who are uncomfortable with the general travel lanes on Memorial or Key, or who need to get from NoVa to parts of DC where not taking 14th street bridge means a big detour. That is unfortunate, but I think still a reasonable compromise. Nothing is going to make everyone happy or solve every policy problem. I think keeping class 3 ebikes separate from pedestrians, which is the law in California, a law that was strongly supported by the ebike industry, IIUC, is probably necessary (note, this would be a decision by the govt of DC, and I have no direct say, other than as a general supporter of WABA)

[Judd]

@dasgeh 174694 wrote:

Really? Given that a large portion of the early adopters of e-bikes have been family bikers, you’re all for forcing people with kids on their cargo bikes on the Memorial and Key Bridges?

I think we are well aware of Hans long time advocacy against family and children, especially on bikes.

His use of a smiley emoticon was a clear indicator that he hopes every family biker including himself is merciless mowed down.

[Dewey]

@Sunyata 174668 wrote:

I have to ask… Why can you not ride an e-bike across Key Bridge in the standard travel lanes? I can ride a regular bike there and I can drive a car there (though I never would), so why not an e-bike? One could also say the same about Memorial Bridge… Correct? So what is it that differentiates an e-bike in those situations? Sure, it might not be as comfortable as riding the trail across, but it is not illegal, unless I am missing something.

(Not that I am necessarily against e-bikes as transportation vehicles. More people on bikes is usually a good thing, as long as they are not jerks. I am just curious as to why lotm seems to think there is no legal way to get across the Potomac for e-bikes as the law currently stands.)

It’s not illegal to ride an ebike on the bridge travel lanes but not something that I feel comfortable doing on my <20mph 250w Class 1 pedelec in the absence of a striped bicycle lane. Honestly for a few dollars of paint Memorial Bridge can stand going on a road diet, it shouldn't take much away from the money congress has promised for the refurb, this was suggested by WABA a few years ago but was rejected by NPS with no reason given. DDOT appears to be backtracking on widening the sidewalk on Roosevelt bridge in the upcoming bridge works, and won't paint a bike lane on Key. The sidewalk paths are at present the only way I feel safe crossing the Potomac bridges so I would very much appreciate it be made legal for Class 1 and 2 ebikes. If you feel otherwise you are entitled to that opinion but then please agree with a reasonable accommodation like a bike lane on Memorial or Key if you believe that slower Class 1 and 2 ebike commuters must ride in the road.

[Dewey]

@lordofthemark 174697 wrote:

It wouldn’t force a detour on Class 1 ebike riders.

It would be easier for me to commute south around Ft Myer to a future Long Bridge bicycle crossing after they finish Phase 2 of the Washington Blvd trail (Winter 2018/19), the Hoffman Boston connector under 395 (2022/23), and a PBL along Army Navy Drive to Long Bridge park (?), but all that’s a few years away.

[Author]

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