e-Bikes – Let’s talk

[CCrew]

@WillStewart 5565 wrote:

In the same light, we have no use for your groundless assertions. Keep on rolling 😎

Note to self. Do not feed the trolls. Just for you Will (link)

[brendan]

@Riley Casey 5560 wrote:

No need to ban electric bikes because the occasional jerk rides too fast on a multi user trail.

It’s funny you mention that. There are some folks on road bikes on the MUTs going faster than most ebikes top out at…

I prefer the cargo bike for MUTs for several reasons, but one that applies here is that it slows me down to a more friendly pace. Or at least, a less unfriendly pace.

Were I MUT commuter, however, travel time might be/seem more important than friendliness.

Brendan

[WillStewart]

@CCrew 5571 wrote:

Note to self. Do not feed the trolls. Just for you Will (link)

Physician, heal thyself…

[WillStewart]

@OneEighth 4927 wrote:

I’m okay with someone like Dirt cruising along the trail at 20+ mph because he’s competent. You generally don’t have the ability to hit and hold higher speeds unless you’ve spent a good bit of time in the saddle and have, consequently, developed a skill level commensurate with your strength and endurance. I think it’s also fairly safe to assume a certain level of commitment to cycling and good cycling practices/manners when you are spending that kind of time on it.

That’s simply not the case with e-bikes.

This is an excellent summary of the situation (similar to what others have discussed).

On one hand, allowing ebikes officially could boost bike commuting tremendously, getting many people out of their cars and adding them to the voices advocating for continuing to improve bike networks and facilities.

On the other hand, out-of-control spoiled teens could run down small children and/or a number of other undesirable outcomes. Perhaps a minimum age (e.g. 17? 18?) or an ebike pass might be the way to approach this, similar to other motorized transportation. Liability on a trail is potentially another tricky aspect this issue.

Virginia law states that ebikes are allowed on bike lanes, though does not list them among the activities that are allowed on shared use paths:
http://www.virginiadot.org/programs/bk-laws.asp#Electric%20Power-assisted%20Bicycles

– A bike lane is defined as that portion of a roadway designated by signs and/or pavement markings for the preferential use of bicycles, electric power-assisted bicycles, and mopeds.

– A shared use path is defined as a bikeway that is physically separated from motorized vehicular traffic by an open space or barrier and is located either within the highway right-of-way or within a separate right-of way. Shared use paths may also be used by pedestrians, skaters, users of wheel chair conveyances, joggers, and other nonmotorized users. (note: no mention of electric power-assisted bicycles allowed)

So any change to the W&OD policy might require a change to the Code of Virginia.

[Dirt]

@Riley Casey 5560 wrote:

Trail, trail, trail, trail, trail, trail. I guess I hadn’t noticed until this thread exactly how trail riding centric so many of the list regulars are. Not meant as a put down just needing a shift in my frame of reference.

A lot in this area are very trail-centric. Like you, I don’t think that’s a bad thing. As someone who doesn’t drive, I find I use the trails a lot during the week and kinda avoid them on the weekend.

My comments on e-bikes was limited to the trails because that’s the only place that I’ve encountered them. On the streets I think they’d basically behave and be treated in two ways: 1) like a bicycle if they’re traveling at bicycle-esque speeds; or like a scooter if they’re traveling at scooter-esque speeds.

On the trail I see no issues related specifically to e-bikes…. more to how they are used. At normal bicycle speeds, they are fine. I have concerns with them when they get going fast… those concerns are the same as cyclists going fast in congested areas.

[DismalScientist]

E-bikes… Sheesh….. My eyesight must not be too good at my advanced age. I get behind this sweet young thing that looks like she’s on some sort of cruiser at the bottom of the Rosslyn hill. I think I’m going to stomp her in my SCR (silly commuter racing) up the hill. Turns out she’s on a e-bike going 20 mph maintaining a 30 cadence. This is not good for my ego.

[americancyclo]

@DismalScientist 5618 wrote:

E-bikes… Sheesh….. My eyesight must not be too good at my advanced age. I get behind this sweet young thing that looks like she’s on some sort of cruiser at the bottom of the Rosslyn hill. I think I’m going to stomp her in my SCR (silly commuter racing) up the hill. Turns out she’s on a e-bike going 20 mph maintaining a 30 cadence. This is not good for my ego.

Happens to the best of us. Except with me it was a older hairy-legged gentleman in hiking boots.

[Dirt]

There’s much more motivation to keep up when the e-bike rider is a hottie of ones’ preferred gender aboard.

[Greenbelt]

Saw an cool looking Kona e-bike at my LBS last night. 2k list price, fully loaded (big lights etc.) First one I’ve seen in captivity, although I’ve had a few brief sightings in the wild.

According to the staff, the electric assist kicks off at speeds over 20kpm (pretty sure it was kph, not mph).

Having seen the upclose coolness, and with assurance that they aren’t designed for speeding around trails, I hope to see more of these.

Would be great for people starting to ride again, but not strong enough yet for hills.

[CCrew]

@Greenbelt 6606 wrote:

Would be great for people starting to ride again, but not strong enough yet for hills.

Pick one up? They average about 50-75lbs.

The governors are pretty easy to bypass based on the DIY sites. There’s starting to become a bit of a modding subculture similar to the candlepower boards.

[ronwalf]

@Greenbelt 6606 wrote:

According to the staff, the electric assist kicks off at speeds over 20kpm

Woo, 745mph! That’ll get me to work on time.

[Greenbelt]

@ronwalf 6620 wrote:

Woo, 745mph! That’ll get me to work on time.

Dang typos. Yep, 20 kilometers per minute would be kinda quick for the multi use trails.

[lclarkberg]

It’s great to see this thread. Ebikes are a complex topic. I don’t know if anyone’s still listening, but I’m both an avid ebiker and and an avid cargo biker and I can offer my own experience. I live in Ithaca New York. It’s very hilly here, so a practical cargo bike pretty much requires an electric motor. Of course I get still get the occasional athletic (as opposed to utility) bicyclist telling me I’m “cheating” until they see I am carrying a 100-pound child and four bags of groceries on my bike.

Regarding CCrew’s post about whether an ebike is more or less environmental than a solely human-powered bike, the answer is not so simple if you take into account the calories burned by the human. Here’s an analysis that shows that the ebike is more efficient in certain scenarios.
http://www.ebikes.ca/faq.shtml#quiz8

Regarding ronwalf’s post about limiting the speed of an ebike electronically: this is common. My bike is limited to the legal speed of 20mph by the Cycle Analyst computer on my handlebars. I really like this and I wish I had one for my car! In fact, I wish everyone had one for all of our cars. Most ebikes’ speeds are limited out-of-the-box by their low power. I’ve doubled the power of my bike so that I can climb hills, and the ability to go fast is an unfortunate by-product of that. So I need the Cycle Analyst to limit my speed. Most ebikes wouldn’t even need that. You can read more about my bike on my blog at:
http://bikeforth.org/about-my-bike-2/

Regarding whether ebikes should be allowed on trails: I think we need to restrict the behavior, not the type of vehicle. If someone is riding dangerously certainly restrict that behavior. I wonder if people are imagining some hairy ebiker tearing up the trail at 30mph. My own experience is that ebikers are car-lite dads like me, or administrators like my wife who need to commute up the hill to Cornell without getting sweaty, or kids like mine who have a few hills to traverse on the way to school.

[americancyclo]

I’ve also met an Australian or maybe Kiwi lass on the W&OD that was using an e-bike while her leg recovered from a regular bicycle crash. Sounds like a great use of them to me. I’m also for it helping get folks out of cars and crowded metro trains, but this admission disturbs me:
@eBikeDude 5044 wrote:

I do not at this point live in a location where such a bike would be practical. (i.e. I live off of a busy 2-lane road in Great Falls, VA, where one would be insane to attempt using such a vehicle.) But at some point I might own one

I worry that a lot of people feel this way about regular bicycles, and a regular bicycle with an electric motor might not make them feel any safer. Might want to think of ways to address this mentality if you’re going to be trying to sell eBikes.

[jabberwocky]

@lclarkberg 11983 wrote:

Regarding whether ebikes should be allowed on trails: I think we need to restrict the behavior, not the type of vehicle. If someone is riding dangerously certainly restrict that behavior. I wonder if people are imagining some hairy ebiker tearing up the trail at 30mph.

I don’t think there is necessarily a problem now, but as motor and battery technology inevitably gets better and cheaper I definitely think we will need to have some regulation of e-bikes on MUPs and paths. Even well designed paths like the W&OD are simply not designed to have steady 30-40mph traffic. I will be unsurprised if e-bikes are approaching entry-level motorcycles/mopeds in speed within the next decade.

[Author]

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