e-Bikes – Let’s talk

[lordofthemark]

@AFHokie 165379 wrote:

E-bikes still have emissions; most electric power is still generated by coal & oil.

An electric vehicle just offsets the issue

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Yeah, but those emissions are created hundreds of miles away – I am not breathing them in on the trail. Note I am not suggesting banning mopeds from roads say (and before you call me selfish, they are probably not being generated within a non-attainment zone either – for all the concern I have with people in rural areas, our air quality in Greater DC is a serious issue as with several other metro areas)

as for E bikes vs mopeds in a more general sense of emissions concerns, I wonder if that mimics the EV vs conventional car debates – in that case it turns out the general efficiency of electrics is so high that they are usually a superior choice even where almost all electricity comes from coal. Not sure if that applies to ebikes.

[lordofthemark]

@dasgeh 165381 wrote:

Given how inefficient our bodies are at producing energy, and how much CO2 goes into making our food, I’m pretty sure ebikes lead to far, far less CO2 than regular bikes.

Ive had this argument on Human powered bikes vs autos, where it comes down to A. Is the biker really incrementally eating more – my own impression of my own weight and behavior is that were I not biking, I would eat about the same amount, but have a higher equilibrium body weight and B. What is the biker eating – sustainably raised plants? Lots of meat? Food raised in particularly carbon intensive ways? Since it was a difficult argument making the case solidly for bikes then, and ebikes are much more efficient than cars, I will concede this one right off the bat. (for now)

But in the spirit of the thread, can we ban meat eaters from the trails?

[TwoWheelsDC]

@lordofthemark 165384 wrote:

in that case it turns out the general efficiency of electrics is so high that they are usually a superior choice even where all electricity comes from coal. Not sure if that applies to ebikes.

If *all* the electricity comes from coal, electric vehicles aren’t appreciably greener than their ICE counterparts. Not an issue in the DC area, but the Midwest is extremely coal heavy.

[lordofthemark]

@TwoWheelsDC 165386 wrote:

If *all* the electricity comes from coal, electric vehicles aren’t appreciably greener than their ICE counterparts. Not an issue in the DC area, but the Midwest is extremely coal heavy.

pre-emptively edited to “almost all”

In Va I think we do most of our electricity from coal.

The real winner will be self powered electric bikes using dynamos I think – not zero emissions (if you think you eat more because you ride your ebike) but probably beats everything else.

[AFHokie]

@dasgeh 165381 wrote:

Given how inefficient our bodies are at producing energy, and how much CO2 goes into making our food, I’m pretty sure ebikes lead to far, far less CO2 than regular bikes.

Don’t forget the increased pollution incurred making the batteries and bike itself.

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[TwoWheelsDC]

@lordofthemark 165387 wrote:

In Va I think we do most of our electricity from coal.

Most comes from your local nuclear power plant at North Anna*! Did you know that Lake Anna was filled to act as the coolant reservoir for the reactors there?

Anyway, Dominion’s current energy mix is: 33.8% nuclear, 33.6% natural gas, 26.5% coal, 5.6% renewable, and 0.5% oil.

*Virginia has two nuclear power plants…the other one is Surry, but that’s in southern Virginia on the James River.

[dbb]

@lordofthemark 165385 wrote:

But in the spirit of the thread, can we ban meat eaters from the trails?

Them’s fighting words!

[Judd]

@dasgeh 165380 wrote:

If we’re banning things from trails, can we talk about dogs? They definitely are capable of going too fast, doing dangerous things and are not experienced enough to handle their abilities in a careful manner.

Insert 50 page argument on whether it’s the dog or the dog operator.

[Judd]

@TwoWheelsDC 165386 wrote:

If *all* the electricity comes from coal, electric vehicles aren’t appreciably greener than their ICE counterparts. Not an issue in the DC area, but the Midwest is extremely coal heavy.

Unless you’re from the Great State of Illinois, where nearly half of electricity comes from nuclear.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/health-science-technology/nuclear-aftershocks/how-much-electricity-does-my-state-generate-from-nuclear/

[mstone]

@hozn 165355 wrote:

I think distinguishing between good motors and bad motors is far more tenuous than motor and no motor when it comes to what should be allowed on the trail. I don’t see any practical difference between low-power mopeds and e-bikes.

I guarantee the pushback from homeowners adjacent to trails will be a lot higher for mopeds than e-bikes. Those things are annoyingly loud.

[UnknownCyclist]

Actually, I can’t stand e-bikes. Well, I can’t stand any other trail users.

But really, I’m really just waiting for an e-bike that will cause me to involuntarily wet myself under full throttle. :rolleyes:

[huskerdont]

This thread just keeps on going.

So, 70 miles on the Virginia Capital Trail yesterday, and the only person who passed me was on a big eBike. I was going in the low 20s at the time, and he flew by me with no warning. Based on the 100% rate (sample size? what sample size?) and my confirmation bias, I’m now leaning the other way on the fence toward the “do not like” category, though as said before, there’s no stopping them so whatevs.

[lordofthemark]

I have been leaning more pro-ebike, mostly because the new American Community Survey results were discouraging – bike commuting plateauing nationally, and a drop in the City of Alexandria (probably not statistically significant, but still) .

But then it turns out someone is using ebikes (weight and speed) as an argument for tighter regulation of bikes in general.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/all-opinions-are-local/wp/2017/09/26/bring-back-the-bells-on-d-c-s-bikes/?utm_term=.16f61af563cf

The risks are growing. Along with more riders generally on District streets, bicycles are also getting more dangerous for pedestrians. Electric-assisted bikes are heavier and can operate at a maximum of 20 mph, five miles below the general District speed limit. With their extra weight, electric bikes can strike a pedestrian with far more force.

Regardless of what you think about requiring bells and rear lights, this use of ebikes in the public discourse is concerning, no?

[dasgeh]

@lordofthemark 165769 wrote:

Regardless of what you think about requiring bells and rear lights, this use of ebikes in the public discourse is concerning, no?

It doesn’t strike me as different than the normal knee-jerk anti-bike rhetoric, honestly. In my experience, talking ebikes with the non-biking population, I get more reactions along the lines of “oh, that’s neat, maybe I could bike” than “oh no, that’s scary, I don’t want to walk around those”.

My solution to the normal knee-jerk anti-bike rhetoric is to stick with the party line of how in the limited space we have, bikes are a key part of moving everyone around. If there are too many conflicts between bikes and peds, let’s reallocate the space to reduce the conflict.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@lordofthemark 165769 wrote:

But then it turns out someone is using ebikes (weight and speed) as an argument for tighter regulation of bikes in general.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/all-opinions-are-local/wp/2017/09/26/bring-back-the-bells-on-d-c-s-bikes/?utm_term=.16f61af563cf

The risks are growing. Along with more riders generally on District streets, bicycles are also getting more dangerous for pedestrians. Electric-assisted bikes are heavier and can operate at a maximum of 20 mph, five miles below the general District speed limit. With their extra weight, electric bikes can strike a pedestrian with far more force.

Regardless of what you think about requiring bells and rear lights, this use of ebikes in the public discourse is concerning, no?

We need to get these 40 pound, 20mile-per-hour death machines off our roads before more people get hurt!!!!!

[Author]

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