e-Bikes – Let’s talk

[AFHokie]

@gibby 164298 wrote:

Based on e-bikers I’ve seen on the MVT and in DC, they are also used to pass people on a flat, crowded trail doing 20+ mph plus, and also to dangerously cut off cyclists starting up from a red light.

I see plenty of “roadies” doing the same.

Regulate the behavior, not the tool

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[LhasaCM]

@hozn 164291 wrote:

Science is not SolarBikeCar’s strong suit, despite being a self-proclaimed “engineer” – I guess IT doesn’t require grade-school physics

Or, apparently, experience with bicycle braking systems. The main argument for disc brakes is not stopping distance, but consistent power in wet conditions and better modulation. Pro rim-brake arguments (why?!) often miss this point and start by asserting that even crappy brakes on a bicycle are usually capable of/sufficient for breaking wheel traction. I used to love that feature on my coaster-brake BMX … Sure, disc brakes stop harder with less muscle input, but I’d be surprised to learn that in any sort of typical brake-hard emergency stopping situation disc brakes made for shorter stopping distances. Maybe vs rim brakes (not coaster) in the wet … Someone could do a study … (ugh, science again!).

(I do think that disc brakes give more control, but I think most people — certainly myself included — are not going to be feathering brakes in an emergency stopping situation.)

http://www.killasgarage.bike/uncategorized/how-do-disc-brakes-generate-greater-stopping-power-than-rim-brakes/ is another interesting look at it from a science-y approach.

As noted in that article, I think part of the benefit of disc brakes also is the “greater stopping power for the input provided at the lever” – but that doesn’t mean that there’s actually greater stopping power, period. That’s more of a function of the travel from pad to braking surface than anything else (or, hydraulics!). Besides – a disc brake has to be more powerful because it’s trying to stop a faster moving object (the rim is farther away from the wheel center).

[americancyclo]

@Sunyata 164289 wrote:

I really should not feed the troll… But SCIENCE.

You do realize that most traditional commuter bikes range between 20 and 30 pounds, correct? And most e-assist bikes are going to weigh at LEAST double the lower range of a non-e-assist bike.

Trek Conduit (418 W ebike ) 44 lbs
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/electric-bikes/conduit/conduit/p/1329000-2017/

Trek Lync 5 (urban commuter) 30 lbs
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/hybrid-bikes/urban-commuter-bikes/lync/lync-5/p/1395000-2017/?colorCode=black

both these bikes have a total weight limit of 300 lbs. are we going to get in to the discussion of rider weight, which is far more variable?

[rcannon100]

@americancyclo 164302 wrote:

are we going to get in to the discussion of rider weight, which is far more variable?

Not sure about your weight, but my weight isnt really variable at all. It is quite persistently at X.

[dhs1963]

@rcannon100 164303 wrote:

Not sure about your weight, but my weight isnt really variable at all. It is quite persistently at X.

But, person to person, the weight varies a lot.

For example, if I buy a 15 lb road bike, I will be pushing 275 lbs up the hill. On the other hand, a 30 lb bike will have me pushing 290, which is a 7% difference.

On the other hand, someone who weighs 135 will have total weights of 150 and 165, or a 10% difference.

[LhasaCM]

@dhs1963 164305 wrote:

But, person to person, the weight varies a lot.

For example, if I buy a 15 lb road bike, I will be pushing 275 lbs up the hill. On the other hand, a 30 lb bike will have me pushing 290, which is a 7% difference.

On the other hand, someone who weighs 135 will have total weights of 150 and 165, or a 10% difference.

It’s also dependent on what else you may have to carry around with the bike. If I have my daughter and her trailercycle attached (which these days I do more often than not), that’s an extra 80+ lbs. I’m towing up the hill on the MBT to get home (since she rarely pedals and her drivetrain is probably half shot anyway), and when I almost wish I had a motor.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@dhs1963 164305 wrote:

But, person to person, the weight varies a lot.

For example, if I buy a 15 lb road bike, I will be pushing 275 lbs up the hill. On the other hand, a 30 lb bike will have me pushing 290, which is a 7% difference.

On the other hand, someone who weighs 135 will have total weights of 150 and 165, or a 10% difference.

Well, getting back to the braking thing, I’m pretty sure brakes only “care” about total system mass, not percentage difference between lighter people riding heavy bikes, heavy people riding lighter bikes, lighter people riding lighter bikes, or heavy people riding heavy bikes.

More mass = more skids.

(since tire grip ultimately determines whether you can panic stop your bike and not turn into a pile in a ditch)

[Dewey]

@AFHokie 161753 wrote:

Tangent: I though this was photo shopped until I saw that water bikes are a thing…

[Steve O]

Another article to feed the discussion
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-electric-bike-conundrum

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[Brendan von Buckingham]

That article captured my feelings of inevitability and loss. e-bikes will inevitably become dominant. bicycles will go the way of the penny farthing and be lost. The starkest “inevitable loss” is death. And death makes me sad. I am better than death, but death will win. I am better than ebikes, but ebikes will win.

And they should get in the road with other motorized transport.

[BobbiShaftoe]

@Harry Meatmotor 164313 wrote:

Well, getting back to the braking thing, I’m pretty sure brakes only “care” about total system mass, not percentage difference between lighter people riding heavy bikes, heavy people riding lighter bikes, lighter people riding lighter bikes, or heavy people riding heavy bikes.

More mass = more skids.

(since tire grip ultimately determines whether you can panic stop your bike and not turn into a pile in a ditch)

Yes! Guys! We should have a weight restriction on bicycle use on the trails. Anyone with combined mass greater than me+ebike has to go.

[Crickey7]

Wow, I found that article elitist and off-putting. You have to earn your commute? Maybe one small segment feels that way.

[Brendan von Buckingham]

@Crickey7 164348 wrote:

Wow, I found that article elitist and off-putting. You have to earn your commute? Maybe one small segment feels that way.

That one sentence might have been, but the article as a whole explored the whole gamut of feelings on the topic. Reflective of this whole thread really. Even had admissions from old guard cyclists how neat ebikes were to ride. Maybe that sentence should get the most attention. It’s not hard to understand that ebikes are the same but different. The parts that are the same are easy to like. The parts that are different are harder to like.

I also learned that the PR folks for ebikes want them to be called electric assist bikes which is a long phrase. So e-ass bikes it is.

[cvcalhoun]

So what I’m getting from this is that my excessive body weight plus the weight of my overloaded heavy (but unassisted) hybrid is such that I shouldn’t be allowed on the trails, either. Good to know.

[lordofthemark]

What I got from the article, aside from the elegiac aspects (because The New Yorker, yes, The New Yorker) was that people can and will ride ebikes in PBLs.

[Author]

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