e-Bikes – Let’s talk

[ShawnoftheDread]

@hozn 163853 wrote:

I hate the e-bike ad campaign that says that busy lives need faster bikes. It’s backwards.

Busy bikes need faster lives?

[dbb]

@Judd 163845 wrote:

I’m for banning both fast people and slow people on the trails. You can get under the bell curve or you can get out!

Striking before BentBike33 has a chance, the fast people and slow people are still under the bell curve – just further out under the tails.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@dbb 163856 wrote:

Striking before BentBike33 has a chance, the fast people and slow people are still under the bell curve – just further out under the tails.

Well if that’s how we’re going to be, no one is under the bell curve – they’re all collectively forming it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SolarBikeCar]

@hozn 163853 wrote:

This argument makes no sense to me. If I had an e-bike and could average 28mph, I could work out in Leesburg without making my commute much longer. Is that really my right?

Average speed and level cruising speed are not the same.
A 28mph level cruising speed is an average speed of about 19mph.
The rest of your point isn’t valid because your data is bogus.

[Judd]

@dbb 163856 wrote:

Striking before BentBike33 has a chance, the fast people and slow people are still under the bell curve – just further out under the tails.

We definitely need to keep economists off bike trails, especially if they are going to point out how bell curves work and insist on riding recliners with wheels attached to them. That’s probably dangerous. A recumbent bike can easily reach 30 miles per hour on the Custis Trail while their rider is taking a nap.

[Subby]

Can we make a trade where we allow some eBikes on the trail but get to set the ELF on fire and throw it in the Potomac?

[dhs1963]

@dasgeh 163821 wrote:

C’mon. Entitlement? Many of us did the legal research, found it unclear, even discussed it with the police (July ABAC meeting – they said the law was unclear, which to them means no ban to enforce), and thus make informed decisions on how and where we ride currently. And now we’re saying the better public policy for everyone on bikes and using trails is to change the laws and how trails are built so that ebikes are legal and bad behavior is illegal and discouragesd as much as possible. That’s not entitlement.

If there’s any entitlement in this debate, it’s the people who are able to ride at high speeds for long distances on non-ebikes saying they should be allowed on the trails, but that we should ban the ebikes that enable others to do the same.

I researched the laws before buying an e-bike. The law is very clear in virginia. An e-bike is not a motorized vehicle unless it can travel more than 28 mph assisted or has more than a 750 watt motor. Because of the way virginia law works, a local jurisdiction can not over rule that. The “Motorized Vehicle” is a legal statement. I have also talked to law enforcement personnel in my town (Vienna). There is no ambiguity in virginia.

[americancyclo]

@lordofthemark 163840 wrote:

If we allow ebikes, do we have to allow segues?

We allow segues all the time here. Isn’t that what most of this thread is?

[americancyclo]

@dhs1963 163863 wrote:

Because of the way virginia law works, a local jurisdiction can not over rule that.

I thought it was the opposite. That’s why the City of Falls Church can ticket you for running a stop sign on a trail even though it’s not illegal in the VA Code.

[dhs1963]

@americancyclo 163865 wrote:

I thought it was the opposite. That’s why the City of Falls Church can ticket you for running a stop sign on a trail even though it’s not illegal in the VA Code.

Only if the commonwealth has allowed the local jurisdiction to do it. By default, they can not.

I do not know about stop signs in falls church — I assumed it was a state law.

[lordofthemark]

@dhs1963 163863 wrote:

I researched the laws before buying an e-bike. The law is very clear in virginia. An e-bike is not a motorized vehicle unless it can travel more than 28 mph assisted or has more than a 750 watt motor. Because of the way virginia law works, a local jurisdiction can not over rule that. The “Motorized Vehicle” is a legal statement. I have also talked to law enforcement personnel in my town (Vienna). There is no ambiguity in virginia.

We have been over this before. IIUC the part of the code you are referring to refers to roads, not trails. NVRPA does in fact ban motorized bikes on the W&OD. I suppose the Vienna police are free to not enforce that based on their interpretation.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@americancyclo 163865 wrote:

I thought it was the opposite. That’s why the City of Falls Church can ticket you for running a stop sign on a trail even though it’s not illegal in the VA Code.

Actual footage of FCPD enforcing “trail laws”…

[hozn]

@dhs1963 163863 wrote:

I researched the laws before buying an e-bike. The law is very clear in virginia. An e-bike is not a motorized vehicle unless it can travel more than 28 mph assisted or has more than a 750 watt motor. Because of the way virginia law works, a local jurisdiction can not over rule that. The “Motorized Vehicle” is a legal statement. I have also talked to law enforcement personnel in my town (Vienna). There is no ambiguity in virginia.

You can read kcb’s post somewhere in the forum on this; it was thorough, though specifically addressing SolarBikeCar’s assertions that his contraption is legal on the W&OD. My memory of that was essentially that NRVPA is perfectly within its right to ban motorized vehicles from the W&OD, regardless of how VA code might classify the vehicle. Perhaps there is confusion here between the VA code classification of “motor vehicle” and the “no motorized vehicles” NRVPA sign? I thought motor vehicles are those that require registration? — Are mopeds considered motor vehicles by VA code? I am not a lawyer, though, and unlike SolarBikeCar, I don’t even play one on TV.

[lordofthemark]

@hozn 163870 wrote:

You can read kcb’s post somewhere in the forum on this; it was thorough, though specifically addressing SolarBikeCar’s assertions that his contraption is legal on the W&OD. My memory of that was essentially that NRVPA is perfectly within its right to ban motorized vehicles from the W&OD, regardless of how VA code might classify the vehicle. Perhaps there is confusion here between the VA code classification of “motor vehicle” and the “no motorized vehicles” NRVPA sign? I thought motor vehicles are those that require registration? — Are mopeds considered motor vehicles by VA code? I am not a lawyer, though, and unlike SolarBikeCar, I don’t even play one on TV.

An aside though, NVRPA does not have its own police force, does it? They rely on local jurisdictions for all enforcement. So since, AFAIK, all the major jurisdictions that own trails (Arlington, Alexandria, I guess Fairfax?) allow ebikes, its likely that they don’t actually enforce NVRPA rules against ebikes?

OTOH, NPS has both rules against ebikes, and its own police, and AFAICT it does not enforce against ebikes either.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@lordofthemark 163868 wrote:

We have been over this before. IIUC the part of the code you are referring to refers to roads, not trails. NVRPA does in fact ban motorized bikes on the W&OD. I suppose the Vienna police are free to not enforce that based on their interpretation.

I can’t find any official text other than “no mopeds or other motorized vehicles.” Not a lawyer, but the intent here seems to parallel the federal (and VA) rules about the definition of mopeds and motorized bikes. E-bikes under 750 watts and that can’t go over 20mph without pedaling are NOT/NOT considered mopeds or motorized vehicles according to federal and VA law…so by my reading, such e-bikes would be allowed on the trail.

If you want to get legalistic, it should also be noted that the W&OD is only open from 5am-9pm from Shirlington to Herndon. No one seems eager to enforce that rule though…

[Author]

Posts