e-Bikes – Let’s talk

[Brendan von Buckingham]

This. This exactly is what I try to tell myself.

@hozn 163675 wrote:

Certainly when the thousandth person passes you up Rosslyn Hill without exerting any effort, without breaking a sweat, it will be attractive to admit “it’s not a race.” Or if cat6 matters, then at least, “I’m not racing them”.

But yet I still can’t help when this happens. E-bike ahead, who because the bike is doing all the work, isn’t exactly pedaling. Yeah, sure the pedals are lazily being turned over, but the cyclist isn’t doing anything measurable. It’s why he’s only going about 14 mph. That’s fine. I catch up. I take a moment to decide whether to stay in line or pass. Then e-bike realizes I’m behind and he decides to go full agro and rocket off at 25 mph. That’s fine too I suppose because It’s not a race. It’s not a race. It’s not a race.

A few minutes later, because e-boy has remembered that the ebike does all the work he has stopped really pedaling again. I catch up again. He zooms away again. Repeat and repeat. I try to be zen about it, but it still kind of strikes me as kind of dickish in a non-fraternal, that’s not how we do things, sort of way.

[bentbike33]

I was once rudely passed by an ebike early on the Custis climb out of Rosslyn, but soon after I passed him (well to his left and with a happily audible warning) as he crawled up the climb to the Bridge to Nowhere because his battery had died or something else went wrong with his contraption.

Ah, schadenfreude!

[consularrider]

@Brendan von Buckingham 163705 wrote:

This. This exactly is what I try to tell myself.

But yet I still can’t help when this happens. E-bike ahead, who because the bike is doing all the work, isn’t exactly pedaling. Yeah, sure the pedals are lazily being turned over, but the cyclist isn’t doing anything measurable. It’s why he’s only going about 14 mph. That’s fine. I catch up. I take a moment to decide whether to stay in line or pass. Then e-bike realizes I’m behind and he decides to go full agro and rocket off at 25 mph. That’s fine too I suppose because It’s not a race. It’s not a race. It’s not a race.

A few minutes later, because e-boy has remembered that the ebike does all the work he has stopped really pedaling again. I catch up again. He zooms away again. Repeat and repeat. I try to be zen about it, but it still kind of strikes me as kind of dickish in a non-fraternal, that’s not how we do things, sort of way.

He’s trying to help you with your interval training.

[semperiden]

That one time I was struggling at the W&OD going uphill just after George Mason Dr cursing the headwind, cursing my tired legs, barely making it to 15-16mph, when suddenly an older lady in a vintage looking bike passed me with no effort whatsoever. Was she riding an e-bike? Was she not riding an e-bike? The madness.

[dasgeh]

@Brendan von Buckingham 163705 wrote:

This. This exactly is what I try to tell myself.

But yet I still can’t help when this happens. E-bike ahead, who because the bike is doing all the work, isn’t exactly pedaling. Yeah, sure the pedals are lazily being turned over, but the cyclist isn’t doing anything measurable. It’s why he’s only going about 14 mph. That’s fine. I catch up. I take a moment to decide whether to stay in line or pass. Then e-bike realizes I’m behind and he decides to go full agro and rocket off at 25 mph. That’s fine too I suppose because It’s not a race. It’s not a race. It’s not a race.

A few minutes later, because e-boy has remembered that the ebike does all the work he has stopped really pedaling again. I catch up again. He zooms away again. Repeat and repeat. I try to be zen about it, but it still kind of strikes me as kind of dickish in a non-fraternal, that’s not how we do things, sort of way.

This has happened to me a number of times with people on non ebikes doing the speeding and slowing (with me on an ebike and on a non ebike).

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[hozn]

https://youtu.be/b-YyKy8WWmo

This is pretty awesome. I’m not sure I saw any pedaling (or helmets) in the entire video!

I have a co-worker that built a similar e-bike, basically an e-motorbike – goes 60mph, apparently. I think/hope he uses a lane of Fairfax County Parkway and not the trail alongside it.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@hozn 163738 wrote:

https://youtu.be/b-YyKy8WWmo

This is pretty awesome. I’m not sure I saw any pedaling (or helmets) in the entire video!

I have a co-worker that built a similar e-bike, basically an e-motorbike – goes 60mph, apparently. I think/hope he uses a lane of Fairfax County Parkway and not the trail alongside it.

Strange…they seem to be too fast/powerful to qualify as a bike and not a moped (or even a motorcycle, depending on max speed with throttle), so I don’t see how these wouldn’t require a license to operate in many places (along with potential registration and helmet requirements) including VA.

For all intents and purposes, if it can go over 20 with just throttle, it’s a moped. Over 35, it’s a motorcycle.

[hozn]

@TwoWheelsDC 163743 wrote:

Strange…they seem to be too fast/powerful to qualify as a bike

How fast/powerful is too fast to qualify as a bike? I have heard of speed limiters at 20mph, but where is that actually applicable? Even big-name production bikes like the Spec Turbo aren’t assist limited to 20mph (they cruise easily at 28mph, I gather).

[TwoWheelsDC]

@hozn 163746 wrote:

How fast/powerful is too fast to qualify as a bike? I have heard of speed limiters at 20mph, but where is that actually applicable? Even big-name production bikes like the Spec Turbo aren’t assist limited to 20mph (they cruise easily at 28mph, I gather).

Federal statute (VA is similar) says an e-bike is:

Two or three wheels

Fully operable pedals

750 watts maximum

Maximum speed of less than 20-MPH on the motor only, on level ground, with a 170 pound rider.

[hozn]

Ok, maybe the problem is that the classification doesn’t have any practical implications for where you can or cannot ride the e-bike? Maybe if NVRPA or NPS enforced the “no motors” rule it would matter more?

[TwoWheelsDC]

@hozn 163751 wrote:

Ok, maybe the problem is that the classification doesn’t have any practical implications for where you can or cannot ride the e-bike? Maybe if NVRPA or NPS enforced the “no motors” rule it would matter more?

Well the fact that it has some implications for what requires registration to use on the road seems a decent starting point for the conversation about what’s allowed on trails. No pedals and a motor that can go 20+? Maybe not appropriate for the trail…Over 750 watts? Maybe not on the trail….

Somewhat meaningless without enforcement, as you say, but for liability purposes (in case of an accident) there should be something concrete and sensible given changes in technology.

[sjclaeys]

The author of the Washington Post op-ed on e-bikes posted a fuller discussion from his point of view on TheWashCycle: http://www.thewashcycle.com/2017/08/dont-be-exclusive-leave-some-pavement-for-non-motored-bikes.html#comments. Some folks on the Forum have already commented. WashCycle will give his response tomorrow.

[dhs1963]

I ride my e-bike on the W O & D. My bike requires me to pedal; I do not have a throttle. Instead, it measures the torque applied at the pedals and provides assist depending on the mode I am in (anywhere from 0 to 200%). Without the ebike, I could not ride anymore because of physical limitations (I can not allow my heart rate to exceed 120 bpm).

Yesterday (Sunday, 8/6) my daughter and I were riding the trail in Vienna. We were riding slowly. At the Mill Street entrance, I watched a family exiting the path. Some MF was booking down at 30+ MPH, and nearly hit a guy carrying a baby, then proceeded to curse him out. He was on a road bike. No motor. He was more of an A-hole than any ebike rider I have seen.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@dhs1963 163766 wrote:

Some MF was booking down at 30+ MPH, and nearly hit a guy carrying a baby, then proceeded to curse him out. He was on a road bike. No motor. He was more of an A-hole than any ebike rider I have seen.

Not defending the guy, but I’m a teeny bit skeptical of the speed estimates here.

[zsionakides]

@dhs1963 163766 wrote:

Yesterday (Sunday, 8/6) my daughter and I were riding the trail in Vienna. We were riding slowly. At the Mill Street entrance, I watched a family exiting the path. Some MF was booking down at 30+ MPH, and nearly hit a guy carrying a baby, then proceeded to curse him out. He was on a road bike. No motor. He was more of an A-hole than any ebike rider I have seen.

When you see someone on an ebike doing the same thing at 28mph, you’ll understand why there is so much consternation at allowing ebikes on the trails. Riding 25-30mph on even a road or TTbike is very hard, and only a few can do it. Giving anyone that kind of power under them completely changes the dynamics of the trails from being recreational to being mini highways.

I personally don’t have issues with low speed ebike riders on trails, but that’s not what is being pushed and advertised. The promotions are for high speed ebikes that can get you to work or where you’re going fast.

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