e-Bikes – Let’s talk

[jnva]

@MattAune 74070 wrote:

I have a Park TM-1 you are welcome to borrow if you want to compare. I would be interested to see the results

Thanks for the offer! I haven’t had time to test the iphone app yet. Do you commute anywhere along the W&OD or custis?

[americancyclo]

I rode an specialized globe bike with an Extracycle Freeradical and a Bionx motor on it today. I had it on full assist nearly the whole way and wanted to point out (to all the folks paranoid about ebikes going too fast on the trails) that the ride took 5 minutes longer than it did yesterday on my road bike, and I did not show up on a single leader-board on Strava, not even a 3rd best time for any segments on my commute.

[americancyclo]

LAB has an ebike survey if you’re so inclined to take it.

http://bikeleague.org/content/survey-perceptions-electric-bikes

[Drewdane]

@Greenbelt 4921 wrote:

If these things start getting marketed as rad new scooter-like toys for kids, to be used like the scooters that infest the U of MD campus, then I’m all for banning them on trails. On the other hand, if they’re marketed (and engineered) to help older or less strong riders commute by bike or utility bike by helping them on the hills, then I’d be much more tolerant.

This.

I know it’s been discussed in a different thread, but there needs to be a way to distinguish e-bikes to assist one’s natural muscle power from those that essentially make pedaling a convenient fiction.

[vvill]

Sort of related, I would like to try a bike fitted with one of these

http://www.zehus.it/

It supposedly needs no active charging if you use it on the default mode, although they don’t really explain how the system decides when you need pedaling assistance. And whoever did their vimeo makes it sound pretty darn cheesy with the voice actor and music.

[DanB]

I saw a bike fitted with one of these on the W&OD last night. https://www.e-bikerig.com/ I think I read that the company started in 2015 as a Kickstarter project. Has anyone else seen these?

Spoke to the rider at the light at Gallows (aka the Great Equalizer). At first I was confused, because I didn’t recognize it as an e-bike. All I saw on the back wheel was an internal hub, and the larger hub in the front could just be a generator. I hadn’t noticed the battery pack on the small front rack. I thought maybe his speed (about equal to mine) was do to the extra sparkly fenders. :rolleyes:

Low-end kits are around $500, and the high-end kits are just over $1k.

[Dewey]

@DanB 159182 wrote:

Has anyone else seen these?

[Pun shield up] More power to him…no really he needs more power, the 24v LEED hub motors are similar to the 24v Clean Republic hill topper I tried last year for a week before returning it, got me(220lb) up to 15mph on the flat but could not pull me up hills, also it was a pain having to hold down the power button. To be fair Clean Republic and LEED both sell a 36v version, offer domestic shipping, and customer service, but for similar cost I’d suggest a BBS type bottom bracket mounted mid-drive motor with a cadence sensor pedal assist will climb most of the hills around here more efficiently, or if you wanted a cheap plug and play option a 48v geared front hub kit and battery can be had for $500 (plus international shipping) from some of the Chinese kit suppliers on the ebikes sub-reddit wiki (if you do this please fit a torque arm).

[Crickey7]

There have been heated debates about whether they are allowed on the CCT. Suffice it to say that it’s not totally clear. I’m not generally bothered by them as long as they are conscientious. It’s when they do things like fail to signal passes that the greater average speed makes them especially dangerous. That being said, I’d say that the rate of ebikers who call passes is greater than the rate of non ebikers.

[Dewey]

@Crickey7 159349 wrote:

There have been heated debates about whether they are allowed…

I do sometimes feel e-bikes are the Rodney Dangerfield of the cycling community when it comes to safety legislation, take for instance the recent welcome change to DC Code repealing contributory negligence concerning fault in bicycle-car collisions and fairness to crash victims – there was no mention of “motorized bicycles” as an exception to the motor vehicle definition so that must mean e-bike cyclists remain subject to the unfair contributory negligence provision that is exploited by drivers lawyers. Then there is the DC DoT interpreting in the strictest sense the DC motor vehicle regulation prohibiting motorized bicycles from “bike routes” to mean e-bikes should not use protected bike lanes – why shouldn’t e-bikes be allowed in DC protected bike lanes when we are allowed to ride on PBL’s (and on sidewalks) in Virginia and Maryland? Why is the Park Service not listening to WABA advocating for on-street bike lanes on Memorial Bridge when at present there is no safe way for cyclists to cross the Potomac bridges except on sidewalks/paths, and even if the cash were found to build bike lanes the anti-ebike DCMR regulation would still not allow us to use them because DC’s remit extends all the way to the Virginia bank of the Potomac? These things need to change to provide safety for e-bike cyclists on the roads if the local jurisdictions want to encourage us off the sidewalks/paths/PBL’s.

[zsionakides]

I didn’t think much of e-bikes before as they seemed to be a novelty, but I’ve been seeing them more and more as commuters. Yesterday I was passed by four e-bikes at different points on the MVT and 4MR trails. One passed me on the 14th St bridge, which I believe it is illegal to ride an e-bike on, since it’s inside DC limits.

My main concern is that the riders on these e-bikes and others I’ve seen before during rush hour are using them as commuter vehicles (a’ la a moped or scooter) and basically running them as fast as they can to get to work. The MVT especially is full of runners and children, creating additional risks of someone getting hit by a high speed e-bike. I don’t have issues with e-bikes being used in bike lanes on the road, but running them on trails IME is a major accident waiting to happen with the way they are being used as commuter bikes.

[Dewey]

@zsionakides 161731 wrote:

…risks of someone getting hit by a high speed e-bike.

As someone who commutes sometimes on the equivalent of a Class 1 pedal assist ebike I appreciate more jurisdictions are following California’s example and making the distinction between low speed ebikes (Class 1 & 2) and high speed pedelecs and electric motorcycles, mopeds, and scooters (Class 3 & 4) and continuing to ban the latter from sidewalks, paths, and trails, while granting the former the right to ride on the sidewalk. This is in line with existing Virginia and Maryland laws that permit low speed ebikes to ride on the sidewalk. As previously noted there is no safe way for cyclists to cross the Potomac bridges except on sidewalks/paths.

[zsionakides]

@Dewey 161738 wrote:

As someone who commutes sometimes on the equivalent of a Class 1 pedal assist ebike I appreciate more jurisdictions are following California’s example and making the distinction between low speed ebikes (Class 1 & 2) and high speed pedelecs and electric motorcycles (Class 3 & 4) and continuing to ban the latter from sidewalks, paths, and trails, while granting the former the right to ride on the sidewalk. As previously noted there is no safe way for cyclists to cross the Potomac bridges except on sidewalks/paths.

If the ebikes were maxed out at 15mph on trails, that would probably be acceptable. The issue I see is one ebike who passed me yesterday on the MVT was going at least 25mph – I was going ~15-16mph, and he passed me like I was standing still, with no audible warning BTW. At that speed, the ebike is basically a low powered electric motorcycle and needs to be evaluated as such.

[Judd]

@Dewey 161738 wrote:

As previously noted there is no safe way for cyclists to cross the Potomac bridges except on sidewalks/paths.

I crossed the Potomac on 395 once.

[AFHokie]

@Dewey 161738 wrote:

there is no safe way for cyclists to cross the Potomac bridges except on sidewalks/paths.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930AZ using Tapatalk

[Dewey]

@zsionakides 161743 wrote:

The issue I see is one ebike who passed me yesterday on the MVT was going at least 25mph – I was going ~15-16mph, and he passed me like I was standing still, with no audible warning BTW. At that speed, the ebike is basically a low powered electric motorcycle and needs to be evaluated as such.

It’s this type of behavior that gets my back up too, I’m sorry you encountered this jerk. I appreciate your acceptance of low speed Class 1 & 2 ebikes. There are many riders including commuters, parents, the elderly, the disabled, students, low-income workers, delivery or rickshaws, riding low speed Class 1 and 2 ebikes, who benefit from electric power assist up hills, and of course this requires ebike cyclists to gain acceptance from existing trail users by respecting everyone’s safety. I would like to see WABA, Bike Arlington, People for Bikes, League of American Cyclists, all the local and national cycling organizations on the same page with a consistent message advocating for equitable treatment for pedal bicycles and low speed Class 1 and 2 ebikes through reasonable compromise. Please let’s start with DC adopting a California style law to regulate the distinction between low and high speed ebikes. Next lets build on the recent successful change to DC Code repealing contributory negligence in bicycle-car collisions, to make low speed Class 1 and 2 “motorized bicycles” an exception to the motor vehicle exclusion so we no longer remain subject to this unjust driver legal loophole. Please let’s work together to change the Municipal Regulations and/or DC Code to permit low speed Class 1 and 2 ebike cyclists to enjoy personal safety while respecting others safety using bicycle infrastructure in the District of Columbia.

I try to follow the golden rule, I am equally as frustrated as you by those who ignore it and intrude on your ride. I ring my bell and call my passes, I bought a 3rd party liability insurance policy I try my best to never use, I joined WABA and took a City Cycling class because I needed to be educated on how to be safe and ride safely around others – I turned off my motor during the drills (the one where you throw yourself on your stomach on the bike seat is fun on a heavy unassisted ebike), I joined an Arlington Kidical Mass ride – I counted 3 other parents towing children who had converted their pedal bicycles with similar Class 1 pedal assist motors. In the past 9 months of commuting I have had two incidents, right hooked, and locked up my rear brake in front of a closely following Metro bus, but despite this I try to ride on-street routes where safe to do so, I take the new Protected Bike Lane on Wilson rather than the Custis trail up hill from Rosslyn – I hope they extend the PBL on Wilson all the way up hill to Clarendon.

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