[EasyRider]

@dasgeh 168250 wrote:

But we’re talking about where people riding these bikes should be allowed to go.

I forget, did we ever address the issue of electric motorcycles? The lines between “e-bike” “e-scooter” and “e-motorcycle” are going to be blurry; even classes of current ebike are not very distinct.

Should any of the above be allowed on paths, assuming they observe speed and safety norms — even though they be capable of highway speeds? They are “perfectly capable of slowing down to the fit conditions”, right?

[EasyRider]

@dasgeh 168230 wrote:

My argument is this: Some people will bike only if they can go the speed limits on many roads (i.e. 25 mph), which is possible with Class 3 ebikes.

I see your point, but I personally don’t feel comfortable endorsing or encouraging the mindset that faster is safer. It’s the opposite. As Vicegrip has pointed out, crashing at 25mph without restraint is very serious. Something like a third of motorcycle accidents involve no other vehicles, and involve speed/loss of control.

Besides that, as a practical matter, scooters are already available that can go at the speed of car traffic, some of them with no license requirements, and at comparable cost to ebikes. So it’s not like there aren’t alternatives.

[EasyRider]

@Dewey 168225 wrote:

a 28mph throttle and pedal assist ebike, the Outlaw 1200, that technically isn’t a Class 3 ebike because the throttle can be used up to the max speed.

lol

The technology is really neat, I enjoyed learning about the sensors.

It’s a shame that to get people to buy e-bikes, companies have to make them capable of unassisted speeds that are twice as fast as a fit 20 something can maintain for more than 5 minutes of effort, and/or market them like they are 1%ers. I hope the industry doesn’t blow too much of it’s lobbying budget on the ebike issue. I know that acceptance positively impacts their bottom line, but still. Stuff like this only deepens my sense that classes of ebike are pretty meaningless in the real world, no? At the end of the day, these are unlicensed vehicles.

[EasyRider]

@scoot 168211 wrote:

Very rough estimate: 27 MPH

According to Google Maps, you covered 0.4 miles (from the bridge over 110 to the guard booth near the AF Memorial) in the time that the e-bike traveled 0.9 (to the intersection of Columbia Pike and Southgate). 12MPH * (0.9/0.4) = 27 MPH

Presumably one could get a better estimate using distance data more accurate than a tenth of a mile, but this is probably within 20%

Yeah, that was my guesstimate — in excess of 20mph. I mentioned this because I got the impression from NovaEBike’s post that ebikes that can be operated throttle only (no pedaling) max out at 20mph. This rider was not pedaling when he/she passed me, and was not really dressed to do so once out of my sight (wool coat, office attire, sitting bolt upright). What qualifies as “pedaling” to get speeds over 20mph? Just making the pedals move to disable the governor? Or actually contributing power?

Also – I doubt this rider is on Strava. If someone can check Strava for the fastest ever stretch between the 110 bridge overpass to the intersection at southgate road, I could see how bad my estimates are. I’ve been doing this commute for years and I’m seen my share of fast riders, but this one was cookin’.

[EasyRider]

Who’s up for a word problem?

I’ve been trying to calculate the speed of the full throttle e-bike that passed me alongside the Pentagon Monday night. I guess it was Class 2, because the rider wasn’t pedaling as he/she accelerated past me in the bridge construction zone, without warning (out of ignorance, I’m sure, not malice, but I digress). By the time I got almost to the guard booth near the 9/11 memorial, I could look up to the AF Memorial and see the e-bike (it’s taillights) nearing the intersection of Columbia Pike and Southgate. Google Maps estimates that to be a little less than half a mile away. Since I was going about 12mph myself, how fast was the e-bike going to put that much distance between us? Hint: I have no idea

I doubt the rider is on Strava (I’m not) but he/she would have passed the AF memorial about 6:50pm on Monday.

[EasyRider]

@hozn 167822 wrote:

But what I really hope is that we might someday have the culture and the infrastructure that makes everyone comfortable riding their bikes on/along roads.

I couldn’t agree more. Lowering the speed limits or adding bike lanes to existing roads makes them safer for everyone. Widening MUPs by cutting down trees and paving over adjacent greenspace to accommodate 20mph+ ebikes makes them more dangerous. For me, it’s really as simple as that.

[EasyRider]

Did it just fall off while you were riding in the smaller chainring — like the chain climbed up the chainring and fell off? If that happened, I’d say uneven wear on parts.

If it happened when you shifted from the large to small chainring, I’d check the limit screw and see if the derailleur cage is on an angle to the centerline of the bike. Sometimes it’s necessary to position it like that to aid shifting, but doing so can also defeat the purpose of the limit screw, especially when shifting from a large chainring (50t) to the small chainring (34t) at speed.

When this happens to me it’s usually after I replace a front derailleur cable. Everything is fine in the workstand, but there’s usually some on-the-road fine-tuning on the first ride.

[EasyRider]

Sorry to hear that this happened to you. I have the same commute.

Why do you think the officer changed the citation? Something made him do it: his supervisor, an incentive, his quotas (Shh!), your ability to pay a ticket? There’s something there.

It doesn’t seem to me like it’s just a case of a cop with no sympathy for cyclists; he actually cited the driver at first and then, it seems, someone overruled him when he got back to precinct.

[EasyRider]

@dasgeh 167270 wrote:

Which is why we need to address the behavior — build parallel safe infra that encourages those who want to go fast to go somewhere else.

I get the point, but I don’t recognize a need to build parallel safe infrastructure for people who simply want to go fast. Those who want to go faster on an e-bike — or any bike — can use the parallel infrastructure we already have, the roads. The roads would be better for it.

Sure, a road isn’t as safe as the path. That’s not news to motorcycles and scooters.
What happens when those vehicles are mostly electric, and there’s no aesthetic excuse (dirty noisy combustion engines) with which to exclude them from this proposed high speed bike path, the way mopeds are excluded from the current MUPs?
Should they observe a speed limit or is say, 40 mph cool?

[EasyRider]

I can’t remember if I’ve mentioned this before, but I’d be interested to read about the decision to keep motorized vehicles off MUPs at the time of their construction. I’ve often mentioned that the Puch mopeds of my suburban youth are about as capable as a class 2 e-bike, maybe class 3 with some modification. What made planners ban them from trails? Was it just the gas engines? The speed? The noise?

I don’t favor digging up such reasons for reapplication to a new situation 30+ years later. They were of their time and place. But the history — old committee minutes, planning docs, whatever — would be interesting to read.

[EasyRider]

@sjclaeys 167162 wrote:

Good question and one that the more vocal e-bike advocates do not seem to want to answer.

I don’t know that class 3 distinction is of great importance. Seems to me that speed limits are the real hangup for e-bike advocates, and 20mph (class 2) is still faster than 90% of trail traffic. I think that establishing even modest limits on trails — say, 15mph limits during peak weekend and commuting hours – would really dampen the market for ebikes. I think most people will obey speed limits even if they can’t be enforced, because they understand they exist for public safety reasons. I also think that they would therefore think twice about spending $2,000 on a bike that they can’t in good conscience take above 15mph. If you’re able bodied and in reasonably good shape, it’s not that hard to go 12-14mph, which gives the ebike an edge of just a few mph. Speed sells.

[EasyRider]

@dasgeh 167158 wrote:

There are plenty of comments on the thread that advocate for banning all ebikes from trails.

OK, then quote “plenty.” No one does, but ascribing this position to the skeptical sure makes them sound unreasonable, doesn’t it?

Most comments I see with an ounce of skepticism about the unalloyed good of e-bikes prefaces whatthey say with “I don’t favor banning e-bikes.” Me. Huskerdont. I can quote more if you want.

[EasyRider]

I support more people on bikes. But if it takes turning a bicycle into a motorcycle to get people on “bikes,” I have some reservations about turning MUPs into roads.

[EasyRider]

@dasgeh 167123 wrote:

Not debating whether this is a good idea, just whether there are folks around here that are capable of doing this on a road bike. Yes, there are. Plenty of them. If we’re going to ban folks based on ability to go fast, then those guys would be banned too.

Who is it that you are responding to that called for a ban on e-bikes?

[EasyRider]

I was using a figure of speech. Apologies. Let me put it differently. My best guesstimate is in 10 years, e-bikes will make up about half of the commuter bikes one sees on a typical commute downtown. E-bikes do create a new market, and that’s why manufacturers love them.

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