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@CaseyKane50 145902 wrote:

There are guidelines and they are called out by the County. See the Arlington web page.

Contractors are supposed to follow the guidelines as published in the Virginia Work Area Protection Manual. See Chapter 6d and should provide a Method of Travel (MOT) with their permit request. The MOT should detail how they propose to protect pedestrians and other users during the construction.

I would say that Alexandria has similar requirements and I have had limited success in getting the City to hold contractors accountable for not following the guidelines.

Well, with a very quick look at that 350page manual, it looks like they are not following it for pedestrians at the times I have been there. The lack of signage as well as making folks cross the street. So, I guess the question is whether the permit tells them to follow it and they are not or they have waivers of some kind.

Chris_S, I did not get a permit number. I will ask for it.

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@chris_s 145856 wrote:

The Right of Way permit process is entirely administrative (staff handle it) there is no public hearing, no public comment, etc. and there are no written guidelines.

Really? No guidelines? How can that even be possible for a permit? Sigh.

So, would it be easier to get that staff riding bicycles (or just replace them with people who regularly cycle and walk all over) and thus, hopefully, more sensitive to bikes and peds in permits?

I’ll continue to push this rope as far as I can. Hopefully it will weaken the windmill enough that even Don Quixote could topple it. (hmmm, maybe I need a lance to ride with. That might make some of these issues a bit more fun.)

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Just providing some status. I e-mailed just after the last post and sent a few other updates about the closures, safety, and general concerns. DES thanked me for the message. The construction folks have a permit to close the lanes (car, bike, and sidewalk) as needed. They are sending my concerns about preserving lanes to someone in the Transit Bureau.

I will update when I receive more information.

How do such permits get approved in the first place? Some construction sites have a covered walkway for peds and bikes and others have nothing. Not very consistent.

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@Raymo853 145809 wrote:

http://www.more-mtb.org/event/fort-dupont/

So, I went to the page to figure out where Ft Dupont was. As per that web page, it is in Kansas. A little further than I would like to bike to this Sunday. Google does find one in DC. That might be easier.

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Every time I go over Trollheim and other bridges, like the one KLizotte mentions, I keep thinking that there must be a better alternative. And one that won’t require them to close the bridges down for months replacing it. Concrete keeps being mentioned as a good surface, but it doesn’t have the aesthetics of a wood bridge in the woods that NPS wants (and I agree, it does look good and feel right in the areas, aside from the slippery/falling factor). I think if cement “planks” were used, they could be drop-in replacements, assuming they were not significantly heavier than the wood. Meaning, the general infrastructure of the bridge could remain the same. They could replace the slippery sections immediately and then the other bits as the wood rots and new planks are needed – like they do now. Question is, do such things exist? They make cement planks for building siding. I do not know if those have the strength needed for a bridge, but likely something could be created. They can be made to look like wood and even be colored such too.

Does anyone know if such a commercial product exists today? I just did a quick search, but kept coming up with siding. I am probably not using the right terms, yet. If we had such a solution, perhaps they could do it now – they know these areas are enough of a problem to try treatments and if the solution drops right in to what they have, it might be something they would do now.

That all said, would the cement also get slippery? There is an area on 4MR under Columbia Pike that was wet a lot and seemed to get slick at times. Perhaps there are better treatment options for cement.

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If you are thinking n+1, the cross bike might be a good bet for more general usage, like the root-bumpy paved trails all over the region (especially Rock Creek Park and MVT) and the bits of unpaved regions here and there (Georgetown Branch, for example). Also, winter.

My biking buddy has several bikes, but recently (this past winter?) got a cross bike and LOVES it; so much so that the road bike hasn’t been used too frequently since the purchase. The cross bike works great on the paved and unpaved trails.

I have two hybrids. The old one is great as a back-up when the new one is being tuned up, repaired, etc. as well as useful for errands due to some of my panniers only fitting that one. I have used both hybrids on the C&O. The Trek 7100 (it has 35s) has traveled repeatedly between Georgetown and White’s Ferry. The trail between Georgetown and Pennyfield lock is pretty decent, even when it has rained – sure, there on puddles here and there, but most regions are passable, although you might get splashed. About 1-2 miles after Pennyfield lock, they appear to stop treating the trail (i.e., adding more sandy soil and packing it down – it is like pavement when they first do that. So nice). My first White’s Ferry ride was misty and raining and it had rained several days before (my bike buddy and I were not thinking about that – we had psyched ourselves up too much to not do the C&O to W&OD ride). It was mud and puddles for about 12 miles. The hybrid did just fine. Hosed it off after getting home and lubed the chain and it was as good as before the ride.

I have also ridden the C&O on a mountain bike (as far as Pennyfield lock), borrowing my buddy’s one time. No huge difference in the comfort or capabilities from the hybrid.

As Easy Rider suggested, try the trail from Chain Bridge to Fletcher’s cove or all the way to Georgetown (and you can swap over many places in between, going down stairs) on your current bike. If you like it, you are probably good as far as Pennyfield. And that can give you a great ride. If not, I think the cross bike is a good bet in this region, unless you really want to do mountain biking. It is versatile and might be nicer on many of the non-pristine trails in the area. And when you want to go out with snow and ice on trails – that extra tire width is very useful.

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@huskerdont 145270 wrote:

Was accidentally 29 miles.

It meant I was late getting the dog on his walk, but it was good for my National Bike Challenge numbers.

Accidentally? Rocking out on headphones (or otherwise in your own world) and missing your turn for a really long time? Following someone (for good or evil purposes) and then had to get home afterwards? Went the wrong way on the trail and didn’t notice for a long time? I know that I have taken a wrong turn on rides when in a new area and have added a couple of miles by not realizing it immediately. You do not state the length of your normal ride home, but as you stated it, it sounds like you added a lot to your commute, not a 1-5 mile oops. So, there must be a story that we are all dying to hear.

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Some have mentioned clipping into the bike and seem to imply that you need a road bike to do that. There are pedals that have one side for flat and one for clipping in. I ride flat (sure, I would be more efficient otherwise, but allowing my feet to slip off in bad situations has saved me multiple times from increased injuries. And I can be a bit of a klutz at times). My biking buddy decided that clipping in might be better and purchased these for several bikes. I am not sure that my buddy ever uses the flats anymore (although I have on a couple of those bikes – before I acquired a second bike and needed to borrow one when mine was in the shop). This would require new pedals and shoes, so some cost, but not a new bike. And it would allow you a way to try out clipping in without making it difficult to go back to the other kind. Especially if it is your only bike and some times you don’t want to put on biking shoes to go to the store or whatever.

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@chris_s 145208 wrote:

The Arlington County Department of Transportation is part of the Department of Environmental Services.

Also Right of Way Permits are handled by different people than Building Permits (transportation people vs building inspector type people)

Aha. Now I understand. That is not obvious from the web page hierarchy. And there are no FAQs on this kind of thing either. Thank you very much.

Off to go e-mail des….

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@chris_s 144945 wrote:

des@arlingtonva.us

Describe the situation, ask if it is a permitted closure, ask for it to be improved and ask what their Right of Way Permit # is.

Last week, before heading out of town for the weekend, I found a complaint form on one of the Arlington building sites. I have yet to hear anything back.

Isn’t des the Department of Environmental Services? If so, I am a little confused as to why they would have an interest in this as it is clearly on a road. Is it because it connects to a trail? If they really would be able to do something, I would write to them, but, as I said, I am confused as to why they would help. Especially since the building permit people have yet to respond to me.

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Well, VDOT just informed me that that particular stretch of Fairfax Drive is not under VDOT control. I should talk to Arlington, but they no idea what group there would handle this.

And VDOT told me that in any case there should be no issue in crossing Fairfax twice (Wakefield and Glebe) to get around it. Cars don’t have to do that, but peds and bikes do? (I did comment back on this point to the person I contacted in the vain hope of getting the person to realize that the world isn’t about cars).

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@mstone 144892 wrote:

There isn’t a place for that. This is construction. If you get in the way you’re basically destroying jobs and ruining the economy. Or something.

Wouldn’t I be creating jobs by requiring someone to stand there directing traffic? And having someone create and manufacture more signs that now list “bike lane” and “pedestrian access” in black on a bright orange background?

Sigh.

I did note that these closures were not listed on the VDOT Northern Virginia Lane Closures list for this week and sent a note to the person in charge of that, also commenting on the lack if safety of the closures. Unlikely to get much done. But who knows.

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@chris_s 144884 wrote:

VDOT roads = VDOT right-of-way permits. Push the safety angle and don’t be surprised if the only concession you can get is better signage. They’re a tough nut to crack.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Thank you.

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@Amalitza 144871 wrote:

Nope, I personally don’t think “nobody taught me otherwise” is a valid excuse for an adult human engaging in these behaviors.

How many of these behaviors are also what people do while driving? How many are just poor judgement or not caring about others? I think we are just seeing current human behavior on the trails. We need to change it all over, not just on the trails (kind of like the calls many on this forum make to have all drivers spend time cycling and walking around cars to better understand how it feels and hope that it changes their behavior).

The equivalent to “calling passes” while driving would be signaling. I find that I am one of the now more and more rare driver who uses my turn signal, even when in a “turn-only” lane or when I do not see another vehicle (just because I do not see another vehicle does not mean that one isn’t there and cyclists, peds, etc. need to know intention too. But I know I am in the minority thinking this through).

The equivalent to Crazy Ivans and generally not paying any attention to anyone but themselves while driving might be cell phones/texting/singing to the radio, etc. And suddenly needing to get to that parking space or changing lanes because “I need to make a left NOW” even though one was in the right lane or whatever sudden traffic move is needed despite all the other cars. (I find people that are not willing to go to the next turn and then do some form of U-turn to be particularly self-centered. But that is me. I am not scared of needing to turn around. I do not think that my ego will suffer from it or whatever those people are thinking)

Shooting the gap driving equivalent? Well, if there were only two lanes, that doesn’t typically happen with cars, although there are turn-outs on curvy uphills in places as well as occasional temporary passing lanes up steep hills, that almost appear to be that. And I have seen many a person use the shoulder. However, the roads are typically built to allow for passing of slower riders. The equivalent might be the person weaving in traffic. Some people are good at this, meaning that they actually judge distances and relative speeds well, know how to handle a car, know their car’s actual capabilities, signal their moves, and are willing to hit the brakes when needed (and typically know all their “outs” available). Some people like to think they are good at this. The latter are unsafe drivers. The former can freak out drivers who are not paying attention, meaning, not looking in mirrors and noticing that someone is coming up from behind with a turn signal on, but will not hit other drivers. This “freaking out” happens even on a standard pass on the road because so many drivers are not paying attention. The difference with bikes is that, (1) mirrors are not required so it is rare to know when someone is coming from behind (especially if the pass isn’t called), (2) there is no standard with MUPs or other bike routes so knowing what is and isn’t safe is a judgement call and that fails (especially with the human powered vehicle that sometimes you do not get the acceleration you think you are capable of providing).

And a comment on “shooting the gap,” some trails are wider than others and there is plenty of room for a “third lane.” Some are barely wide enough for single file in each direction. For the former, I will pass going down the middle, if it appears safe. And that is likely the key for anyone who is passing – it “appears safe” or “appears to be fine.” If there is no accident, then perhaps it was a good call. Does it freak out the others on the trail? Quite possibly. Was it unsafe? Hard to say in some cases. There was a cyclist on the W&OD that for a couple of years I would pass on Sunday’s between Vienna and Reston. She ALWAYS yelled that we were “too close!” Even when she was very far right, we called and dinged well in advance and then passed on the far left or were coming towards her but on our far right. We came to realize that she was a poor judge of nearness and probably needed help of some kind. We weren’t going to not pass her.

What can we do about this? Just educate those around us and watch out for the others. Hell, this morning someone passed be on the Custis by ~3 inches without a call, and no, I am not exaggerating. I just kept calm and stated loudly “thank you for telling me that you were going to pass by so closely.” Not much else I could do.

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@tnelson 144878 wrote:

Call the police? It seems like they’re the ones who would have to instruct construction vehicles to move.

Otherwise, take photos of the situation, and send them to VDOT. Hopefully it’ll make it from customer service down to the crews.

I have a dumb phone and usually just want to get home, so photos are tough. I will see if there is an appropriate place to complain to VDOT. I just kind of figured that there would be an appropriate Arl. Co. web page to report such items. At one point there was a web page one could report home construction violations (I and my neighbors did repeatedly during the construction of the monster across the street that started making loud noise before 7am, continually parked in front of the fire hydrant, and other items.), but I have not been able to locate this. Perhaps it was too popular?

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