crash on the w&od

[greenjug]

saw a crash at the sharp turn this morning through east falls church park, where the trail begins running next to 66. i crashed on the same turn last year after a rain. can they prevent that pavement from flooding/mudding somehow?

[bobco85]

@greenjug 144520 wrote:

saw a crash at the sharp turn this morning through east falls church park, where the trail begins running next to 66. i crashed on the same turn last year after a rain. can they prevent that pavement from flooding/mudding somehow?

Was it the turn shown in these pics?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]12285[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]12286[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]12287[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]12288[/ATTACH]

If so, I know that this curve almost always is slippery right after it rains because there is a patch that forms of mud (or ice when it’s cold). I have had a few moments where I fishtailed due to my rear wheel catching it.

But to answer your question: YES, they can prevent that pavement from becoming hazardous. Will they? That’s another question. I don’t know if it’s been brought to NVRPA’s attention, but I’d recommend contacting them about it.

[mstone]

@bobco85 144524 wrote:

Was it the turn shown in these pics?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]12285[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]12286[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]12287[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]12288[/ATTACH]

If so, I know that this curve almost always is slippery right after it rains because there is a patch that forms of mud (or ice when it’s cold). I have had a few moments where I fishtailed due to my rear wheel catching it.

But to answer your question: YES, they can prevent that pavement from becoming hazardous. Will they? That’s another question. I don’t know if it’s been brought to NVRPA’s attention, but I’d recommend contacting them about it.

That’s a spot where it’s just important to reduce speed coming down from the hill. Beyond wetness, the sightlines are bad for oncoming traffic, the trail from the west suddenly narrows, the center line simply doesn’t exist through the curve so people coming from the west aren’t necessarily on the proper side, and there’s a tendency for debris to collect there. The entire trail section should be redesigned, preferably easing the corner, widening the trail through the curve, or both. And the centerline should be painted. And the drain culvert should be enlarged. If none of that’s done, a sign should be posted clearly explaining the problem. (Not one of NVRPA’s stupid content-free scolding signs that everyone is conditioned to ignore, but something like “we built a bad trail section with poor sightlines, slow and use caution on blind curve”.)

[hozn]

People just need to slow the F down on that corner. And stay in their lanes. The lack of a painted line is also little excuse to be clearly on the wrong side of the trail, yet this happens routinely. The biggest (or most dangerous) offenders are those coming down hill — and they do have a painted line. I always approach that section of trail with extra caution when coming from the west because half the time some jackhole will round the corner at speed in my lane. And I’m pulling a trailer.

Going downhill, I’ve certainly had some wheel slip in winter but if you slow down AND DON’T CUT THE CORNER then you hit the slippery section pretty much straight on and there’s little chance of falling. Or at least, far less chance. I haven’t fallen there in the past decade of commuting that corner, but I recognize that it can get slippery. But not as slippery as the wood bridge, for those headed to the metro / taking that route to reconnect to the W&OD.

[Tania]

@hozn 144547 wrote:

People just need to slow the F down on that corner. And stay in their lanes. The lack of a painted line is also little excuse to be clearly on the wrong side of the trail, yet this happens routinely. The biggest (or most dangerous) offenders are those coming down hill — and they do have a painted line. I always approach that section of trail with extra caution when coming from the west because half the time some jackhole will round the corner at speed in my lane. And I’m pulling a trailer.

Going downhill, I’ve certainly had some wheel slip in winter but if you slow down AND DON’T CUT THE CORNER then you hit the slippery section pretty much straight on and there’s little chance of falling. Or at least, far less chance. I haven’t fallen there in the past decade of commuting that corner, but I recognize that it can get slippery. But not as slippery as the wood bridge, for those headed to the metro / taking that route to reconnect to the W&OD.

Agreed.

[mstone]

@hozn 144547 wrote:

The lack of a painted line is also little excuse to be clearly on the wrong side of the trail, yet this happens routinely[/quote]

Agree that people should stick to their side regardless, but we build infrastructure for the least common denominator and every little bit helps.

Quote:

I haven’t fallen there in the past decade of commuting that corner, but I recognize that it can get slippery. But not as slippery as the wood bridge, for those headed to the metro / taking that route to reconnect to the W&OD.

I haven’t either, but I’ve definitely seen bikes down there. Another hazard I forgot to add to my list of deficiencies with that trail segment–the piles of bikes!

[Dickie]

A very good friend of mine was taken down by an “jackhole” type taking that corner too fast and too tight in the rain. Said “jackhole” went down hard heading west and took out my buddy heading east. Jackhole walked about with bruised ego, my buddy ended up in a cast with a shattered elbow. I hate that corner and I take it everyday.

[rcannon100]

There is always the CX track through the woods to avoid that corner. Itz good training.

[Steve O]

If there were an intersection or a curve on a roadway where cars regularly slid into each other or crashed into a barrier or something, the engineers would be out there redesigning it and making it safer right now. Not 5-10 years from now when some puny capital funding project might or might not get approved.

Shoot, you see these things everywhere:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]12306[/ATTACH]

Any driver paying attention shouldn’t just run into the concrete barrier and the exit sign, right? C’mon! Pay attention! Why waste money on these stupid barrels? There’s no reason any attentive driver should ever smash into them, right?
These safety features, among many, are integral to roadway design. But people riding bikes are just supposed to “be alert for hazards.” And for other riders behaving badly, too, I guess. (And random posts placed in the middle of the trail /pet peeve/)

More than 50% of regular bike riders I know have crashed on the Trollheim (me included). Imagine if 50% of drivers had crashed at some particular place on a roadway? Or the curve in question, where all of us have either witnessed a crash or experienced some close calls? We can blame the jackholes all we like, but I’d much rather have a design that keeps everyone safe even when some people are acting badly. And taking the jerks out of the equation, there have still been more than enough single-bike crashes there to warrant a fix.
Just like the solution to the problem of people crashing into the exit sign in the picture above isn’t “pay attention when you drive!” the solution to the dangerous curve should be more comprehensive, too.

[ginacico]

@rcannon100 144781 wrote:

There is always the CX track through the woods to avoid that corner.

More commonly, that dirt path is where pedestrians take refuge from the speeding jackhole cyclists. Please don’t encourage riding there.

[bentbike33]

@ginacico 144785 wrote:

More commonly, that dirt path is where pedestrians take refuge from the speeding jackhole cyclists. Please don’t encourage riding there.

Wouldn’t the optimal CX training route be to go straight up the trail to the rock formation at the summit of Brandymore Castle, dismount, carry the bike across the rocks, then remount and ride down the trail on the other side? I think the intersection with the pedestrian shortcut would be minimal

[Tania]

I bike through that dirt section ALL the time when it’s dry (more so heading west since my longboard front fender doesn’t play well with roots). The rules of the trail still apply – bike courteously, give preference to pedestrians, don’t be a jerk. Never had anyone not return a hello and a smile.

[ginacico]

@Tania 144811 wrote:

I bike through that dirt section ALL the time

I should’ve said, please don’t invite the speeding jerks to take the dirt detour. The real question is how to make Tania’s trail etiquette more universal.

I don’t live there anymore, but many residents of those neighborhoods walk to EFC metro and often use the woodsy paths. Some of them are mighty narrow and couldn’t handle much bike traffic in addition to pedestrians. (And anyone who could actually pedal up to the “castle” earns kudos.)

The new ART 54 bus just replaced Metrobus 1E as transport to a metro station. Maybe it will get more ridership, we’ll see. Point being, there are lots of people walking in that dangerous section.

[Tania]

@ginacico 144814 wrote:

The real question is how to make trail etiquette more universal.

That’s the million dollar question. And unfortunately, I’m finding most other cyclists are jackholes although in the past week or two I’ve had some pleasant interactions with passing cyclists* so I can’t say “all cyclists.” It’s why I leave for work so early (6am) – fewer people are out that early. And by people, I don’t mean joggers.

Anyone who rides with me knows I ride relatively slowly on the MUPs. I’ll pick up the pace when the weather changes and the traffic thins out but for now I take my time and enjoy the ride.

*Had one guy a few weeks ago tell me he was on my back wheel right near St. Ann’s on the Custis. I was like “well, that’s a new one but hey, thanks!” then a minute or two later he called his pass, I yelled back “you got it!” and THEN passed me. I almost chased him down to hug him.

[vern]

WWTD*

* What Would Tania Do?

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