[dplasters]

@hozn 97402 wrote:

I have never encountered one of these; I don’t think this is a real problem. And plenty of [conventional bicycle] riders can go 30+ mph; just look at Tim’s KOMs!

Article

One MMM reader sent me a full description of the $3400 ebike he built from the ground up that easily does 35MPH and regularly rocks a 42 mile roundtrip commute in a hilly area with high winds.

Have I encountered one? Nope. I think there are enough stories of what happens when a bike hits a pedestrian at high speeds to give cycling a bad enough name. Reaching those speeds requires a lot of fitness, effort and experience. Those three things typically combine to knowing that going 30mph on a MUP is a bad idea. Being able to easily reach that speed and beyond means you are less aware of how fast you are going and how dangerous it can be. It is similar to the problem with people speeding in cars. When you don’t have to work very hard to go faster.. you tend to go faster.

I have no problem with people using frankenstein ebikes on the road for commuting. But I certainly have concerns about them being used in MUP/Trail. If you want to use an ebike limited to 20mph (which still allows your muscles to get it going faster than that) I’m all for it. Let me know how fast you can move a 50 lbs bike above 20mph. If your bike can do 35 mph with a turn of the wrist then get on the road and off the path. No one is advocating for gas powered scooters on the MUPs even though many are limited to low speeds to avoid some of the new regulations.

As an aside:

If a moped is operated in excess of 35 mph, it is considered a motorcycle.

three wheels or less plus motor plus 35mph = motorcycle in VA these days. better get your registration and plates.

[dplasters]

My concern with e-bikes is always the person who creates a bike at home that can go 30mph+…

The legal e-bikes that are limited to 20mph should be allowed anywhere a regular old bike can go.

[dplasters]

Whoever you were, riding westbound on 29 between Shreve Rd and Gallows Rd.

Props to you. I haven’t seen anyone else ride on the road for this stretch.

You make me feel less crazy.

[dplasters]

No Tornado – check
No Hail – check
All my co-workers think I’m crazy – check

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6820[/ATTACH]

[dplasters]

@baiskeli 96789 wrote:

In Russia, tires puncture you.

I’ll be driving home today. Took the car. Does anyone else have an issue where they don’t use their car for a few weeks and then when you do use it the brakes sound like death? My guess is rust.

On Monday this week I got to take the W&O for the first time ever to get to NFCU and to Walgreens in Vienna. Lovely. You all are spoiled. But I took the wrong turn off / went too far like 2 or 3 times. I need some signage or something for those little branch / off-shoots that put you onto neighborhoods.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6789[/ATTACH]

[dplasters]

@Steve O 96530 wrote:

I highly doubt this course is truly “solvent.” According to their website, it occupies more than 500 acres of land in Arlington County.

The combined 500-plus acres in Arlington and Fairfax

http://www.ancc.org/club/scripts/library/view_document.asp?NS=PUBLIC&DN=GOLF

Not that it means they aren’t subsidized in some way. I have no idea. But my guess is the Arlington part is around 200 Acres. Last I saw the initiation for non military members was over 40k someone I talked to said nearly 70k and the monthly dues put it at around 5k a year to be a full member.. so they still have a chance of being solvent. Depending on how they have invested the funds over the years I could see it. Either way, out of my league for the convenience of being able to bike to play golf. I’ll get in my car thank you very much.

God bless google. Yes, ANCC is tax exempt but nothing about property taxes. But it says they had 26 million in income….

Lets not even discuss Belle Haven.

9 holes at RCP for $15. That’s less than one jar of embrocation.http://www.niagaracycle.com/categori…FStgMgodETYAEA Although I just slap some Sriracha sauce on.

Did not know that existed…..

[dplasters]

@lordofthemark 96525 wrote:

I am pretty sure I read the club wants to sell, and the zoning loophole was one that would allow it to sell, and not be forced to remain open space. County can’t force a private owner to sell for development in Virginia (even were that poltically possible)

ah, here we go

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-state-of-nova/post/reston-national-golf-course-owner-hints-at-tearing-it-out-building-on-land-near-two-new-metro-stations/2012/08/22/f78e574e-ec09-11e1-a80b-9f898562d010_blog.html

Yeah I was running off my vague memory. I already updated my original post. They have given up the re-zoning fight apparently.

http://www.reston.org/NewsCenter/RestonNationalGolfCourse/Default.aspx?qenc=HzT9ACzZbNs%3D&fqenc=bSBrQw5RYW1xnxXiyhjEWw%3D%3D

So the king has gotten his way… kinda

*On Topic* for like the first time ever for me in this thread:

I do think cycling is likely the “new” golf in that it can be used to socialize etc. I do wonder how well you can socialize while riding but it appears to be possible. Like all hobbies there are ups and downs in the amount of people that participate. Hopefully the increase in cycling popularity can get pushed up by more cycling infrastructure and it will be seen less as a hobby and more as an actual form of transportation. So the hobby might ebb and flow but cycling in general will continue to grow. (See tennis boom of the 70s, golf boom of the late 90s early 00s). I did get a laugh out of the CNN article calling road riding “relatively less expensive”. Golf can be done cheaply or expensively, just like bike riding. I can imagine the choices running through their minds “5k on clubs (gotta get new ones every 3 years, just like road bikes… trust me) and 5k on green fees or 9k on a new bike?” “Biking is a steal!” :rolleyes:

Jai alai will be the new cycling or raquetball or something.

[dplasters]

@lordofthemark 96510 wrote:

In the case of outer suburban courses they are likely to become low density housing (isn’t that course in Reston, south of the Toll Road, supposed to become townhouses – low density, autocentric style townhouses, not exactly a major contribution to regional urbanist goals) – IMHO might as well stay a golf course. If I were king, I would make courses like that solvent, and in exchange get courses with much more development potential sold – the two I have in mind are the Army Navy course in Arlington, and Carver Langston in DC. Both are in locations where high density mixed use (with some well programmed park space) could advance several public purposes But the former is where the admirals and generals play I guess, and is quite solvent – and the latter while public (so the proceeds of a sale could go to support DC govt purposes) is historically significant IIUC as the first course open to african americans in the region. So neither is going anywhere anytime soon.

At least we are getting a bike route across Army Navy.

Yeah Reston National is under fire. Its privately owned and makes money but with the silver line opening up next door the stockholders smell more money and are willing to sell to develop what you are talking about. Fairfax County has it zoned as “open space” or something like that. The zoning board has turned them down several times, so I don’t think its going anywhere. *I have edited this section cause my original understanding was totally wrong.

I wouldn’t expect Army Navy (ANCC) to go anywhere. They have two facilities in very strong locations and (despite the name) take members from the general public. Very expensive to join because of the prime locations. I looked into it. The Fairfax property is very very close to my house and I would have a quick bike ride to a round of golf. I dislike having to get into my car to play but I don’t have any 18 hole options near the house otherwise. Golf would have to not just decline but basically implode for the major Country Clubs in the area to sell.

I heard they were trying to do a super revamp of Langston to try and get it in tournament condition and use the historically black aspect of it to try and drum up PGA Tour / Mini Tour interest. I’m sure that won’t happen either. It will continue to be a run of the mill meh golf experience and neither a great park or a great urban area.

[dplasters]

*Note to self

1.) Buy Crabon road bike
2.) ?????
3.) Profit!

I am waiting for Country Clubs to start organizing social bike rides…..

Clearly we all agree on one thing… biking for transportation is awesome and we need more bike lanes (protected cycleway access path-tracks, for the in crowd).

Also – I clearly need to organize the first ever official non-official WABA Forum Golf Outing / I’d be excited to get a foursome together.

[dplasters]

@jrenaut 96492 wrote:

But more people cycling has benefits for everyone, even those who don’t cycle. What benefit to society in general would we get from having more people golf?

The cycling here is clearly as hobby/socializing only. It doesn’t replace their cars. I agree that using your bicycle to replace or reduce the use of a car can benefit us all. I don’t know how you cycling as a hobby benefits the collective we.

More jrenauts = better world. More freds = some other hobby is done less (world shrugs).

Does being a fred lead to bike commuting? Is it a gateway drug? I don’t know. Studies?

[dplasters]

@jrenaut 96467 wrote:

You’re right, I should take it easy on golfers. Just because I don’t like it doesn’t make it necessarily bad. But the courses do take up a ton of space, cut down all the useful plants and replace them with what’s no doubt non-native grass, and require TONS of upkeep. And they take otherwise pleasant space and make it inaccessible even to the golfers because at any moment there could be a small, hard object moving very quickly at your head.

The more people we can convince to take up other pastimes, the better off we all are.

I tried my hardest. But here I go…..

Unless the other pastime is what? Car racing? We can all agree that is for sure the worst? That’s probably a bad hobby. The Porsche owner who takes his car to VIR would point out that people take their helicopters and airplanes (still kicking around leaded fuel) for joy rides and the Porsche owner can point out that he is responsibly not doing this on public roadways, can cyclists who race / train say the same? Some can, some can’t, some get called pathletes.

What, preciously, should we do with that space? People are paying to use it right now. People (or local governments) are making money on that land (private courses). Free parks are great, but they cost money (public land/municipal courses). They lose money. Some municipal owned golf courses lose money, but not as much money as they would if they had to upkeep a public park. Are there better things for the environment? Sure. But someone has to pay to maintain them. No free lunches. If so few people use the golf course that it loses too much money and would be better off as a public park I’m in. Awesome, lets do it make it a park. But if it was that easy/straight forward, it already would have been done (could be in the planning? I have no idea which course is the thorn in your side). The reality is probably that the park would cost more and that there isn’t the public support to pay for it. Granted, I live in Fairfax, but there are public parks freaking everywhere. I have seven in my zip code. Two of which could actually fit golf courses on them and I am a 5 minute walk to the metro. Not exactly Clifton.

Humans have hobbies. Its a great thing. Disparaging a hobby that you don’t enjoy is really easy to do. At some point, we are all doing something that is making the collective “we” worse off. Cycling is no different. Running is cheaper, requires less facilities, requires less non-renewable resources and is a better workout. So the statement “The more people we can convince to take up other pastimes, the better off we all are.” is just as true.

On the environment / plant side there has been a large push in the last 10 years or so to try and rectify some of the idiocy that occurred between about 1950 and 2000 when as a country, we collectively gave the middle finger to the environment in everything we did. And all of us here wish that there were less insane cyclists to give us a bad name. Please don’t judge all of golf because of a bad / stupid / poorly planned course and please don’t imply that our world is better if we all do the same things. That would be really really dull. There is such a thing an environmentally responsible golf course. I promise you.

***** Disclaimer, if the area you live has little to no park space or common use land and an empty golf course and jam packed parks BY ALL MEANS lobby for an alternate use, but that is not even close to the case in many areas and the golf courses are at least providing a revenue source and a green space for people to enjoy their hobby. ******

[dplasters]

@jrenaut 96437 wrote:

That would be fantastic. Replace a useless faux-sport that monopolizes giant swaths of prime real estate with a lifelong fitness activity that actually improves the world. Everyone wins, except golf course owners.

Sigh. Green space is nice to have. Parks require upkeep. Golf courses generate revenue and add greenspace. Are they as good as a loss leading public park? No. But its not the end of the world and they are a nice compromise. They can replace them with strip malls. Surely, that is better. Golf magainze (I think) had a stupid curt offensive response to the trend. I distance myself from their idiocy.

I’d be much happier if the courses in the area worked harder to lower the amount of water they use/waste though. I would also encourage people to actual walk a golf course. Its likely a better workout than you think, particularly when you’re carrying or pushing your own 30 lbs bag. Or practice cyclocross for around 5-7 miles.. but carry your bike the whole time. But no, not nearly what a 4 hour ride would be.

Golfers. Golfers would lose too. Just 28.7 million of us. :rolleyes:

Now those damn road cyclists monopolizing my road……

What I would actual think would be very interesting is using golf cart paths to ride on…. I’ve seen a guy ride through Army Navy Country Club in Fairfax. They have a maintenance gate that exits out onto Pickett. He seems to use it as a cut through. I drool as I ride by it….

I’m done for the thread, you are welcome to continue golf bashing. I know it is likely in jest. But please, no comments about stuffy rich golfers. Just look to yesterdays BSNYC.

[dplasters]

@jrenaut 96387 wrote:

My first job back when I was 16 was at a Subway “restaurant”. The day manager, on his way out, would always warn us on full moon days that it was going to be a weird night. He was always right. The moon does make people crazy.

Subway isn’t the only place that has the same idea. Bunk as it may be, it has a traditional following in many ERs.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6769[/ATTACH]

[dplasters]

@dasgeh 96350 wrote:

Thanks for this. Looks like firearms” are responsible for 32k (Table 12 in this)

So cars kill more than guns. Or don’t kill more than guns don’t kill. Or whatever.

The gun stats are always depressing. 20k of those are suicides. Another one of those “we talk about people getting shot in mass shootings / criminals” but most of it is people commuting suicide. But that isn’t really something that makes the news. Like many of the other things on Jon’s list.

People stink at evaluating risk.

[dplasters]

Kicking the idea about, I wondered what the biggest killers were.

126k Americans die in accidents every year. Cool. Where can I see how that breaks down?

34k Motor Vehicle deaths, very interesting. Does that include Pedestrians? What is going on with that?

601 Pedal Cyclists were killed (page 73). Wait, what the hell is a pedal cyclist? And why is there a Pedal Cyclist other? And 272 people are really dying colliding with other things that are not motor vehicles?

ICD 10 Codes? Oh good god really?

Pedal cycle rider injured in collision with pedestrian or animal
Pedal cycle rider injured in collision with other pedal cycle
Pedal cycle rider injured in collision with two- or three-wheeled motor vehicle
Pedal cycle rider injured in collision with car, pick-up truck or van
Pedal cycle rider injured in collision with heavy transport vehicle or bus
Pedal cycle rider injured in collision with railway train or railway vehicle
Pedal cycle rider injured in collision with other nonmotor vehicle
Pedal cycle rider injured in collision with fixed or stationary object
Pedal cycle rider injured in noncollision transport accident
Pedal cycle rider injured in other and unspecified transport accidents

Just in case anyone else was curious. I wanted to save them the time. I’m off to go pedal on my cycle.

[Author]

Posts