What kind of bike do I want: commuting all the time edition

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Viewing 15 posts - 121 through 135 (of 142 total)
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  • #995415
    jabberwocky
    Participant

    As someone with a lot of experience with hydros and mechs, I would say hydros are far simpler to maintain, and generally much more trouble free. The real advantage of mechs is they are easier to repair in the field, and use technology that most cyclists are already familiar with (eg cables and housing) rather than one they have to learn (hydraulic fluid and lines). But modern hydros are dead simple to bleed, especially the closed systems like avids, and aside from pad changes thats likely the only maintenance you’ll ever need to do. And in terms of use, they are superior in pretty much every way (more powerful, better lever feel, lighter weight, withstand heat better). And honestly, if you’re running high end housing with mechs, the cost difference just isn’t all that high. EDIT: CRC prices, Elixer 5s would be 216 for both wheels, all in. BB7s are 124 for the calipers/rotors, 29 for SD7 levers, and then figure 30-35 for a high end housing/cable set, which ends up at 183 or so. Not a big price differential.

    I’d go with mechs where field maintenance and part availability are of top concern (on a touring bike, for example), or anywhere you want to run something other than mountain bars. Otherwise I see little point to mechanicals.

    #995418
    hozn
    Participant

    Yes, obviously jabberwocky has much more experience than I do (I don’t own any bikes with hydros). For me brifters is a requirement on a non-mountaining-bicycle so that limits my options to Shimano hydros (or Sram again if I want a month). So that made the decision easy for me. I think you can often get hydros cheaper now (e.g. Elixir 5s on pricepoint for $70/wheel), so if we’re talking flatbar then I’m likely wrong on [good] mechanicals being less expensive.

    While I’m sure I’ll appreciate hydros when I switch, I would say that single-finger braking is easy on the mechanics (road or mtb) and I have never had “hand fatigue” issues w/ all-day mtb rides. So I’ll switch when I need to, but don’t feel in a hurry. Certainly the difference is not as pronounced as moving from v-brakes to disc. I’ll likely switch when I switch over my [road] bike to Di2. Maybe that’ll be my project for 2015.

    #995421
    vvill
    Participant

    @dasgeh 79119 wrote:

    Yes, my palms are basically vertical on my road bike. I don’t like having my hands away from my stopping power, but I don’t think that wrist position is the aspect of my current riding style that’s so comfortable — I think it’s the overall shoulder/arm angle and distribution of weight that I like. But I’ve never really tried it — do others (who don’t have bad wrists ;-) think that if I could get the flat bars to be in the same place relative to my hips, I could be as happy with flat bars? And could I take a CX frame and build it this way (with flat bars on a long-ish stem)?

    Personally, for my wrists, I found many many years ago that once I tried bar ends on flat bars, I rarely used the flat section. The hoods/drops on a road bike were a similar revelation – the wrist angle is so much more comfortable and it’s easier to engage more of your upper musculature too.

    Hopefully I’m not contradicting anything I’ve said before, but I think flat bars and dropbars are pretty different, and imo your decision to go with a CX/gravel bike or not will weigh on that as it’d be pointless to get a CX bike and then get flat bars since CX bikes are designed around dropbars, brifters, etc. – you would lose some of the buying value in a whole bike with matched components, not to mention the geometry of the frame is designed around it (I can’t say I know exactly how this would affect you, but putting swept back flat bars on a bike designed for dropbars would probably make it too small). If you want flat bars I’d just get a higher end hybrid or “flat-bar road bike” instead – it will likely have 32mm tire clearance at least (although I would check depending on what you want).

    Flat bars are essentially one position riding (wherever your grips are), with two or three positions if you get bar ends (although you can’t brake or shift from there). Drop bars give you hoods and drops from which to shift and brake from, and then there’s the tops and elbows for cruising – or anywhere with bar tape, really! Drop bars (especially if positioned high enough) give you the option of being in the tops for alert riding in traffic, or hitting the drops to sprint into the wind or up a hill. And if you want brakes on the tops you can get interrupter levers – which are standard on some CX bikes ;)

    The width/shape of bars can have a big effect on your positioning too. Flat bars are generally wider than drop bars, which gives you more leverage for control/stability but they steer slower and obviously your riding position will be less aerodynamic (urban fixed gear bikes often come with very narrow flat bars though). Of course you can get drop bars in various widths and shapes too: flared out drops are more popular for those putting dropbars on off-road/adventure bikes since more leverage is desirable there. (FWIW you can actually “aero-tuck” on flat bars about as easily as on drop bars if you put your hands/forearms close together near the stem, and bend your elbows.)

    RE: Distribution of weight, generally hybrid => CX/touring => modern road bike will mean more weight on your hands/arms and less on your saddle. Obviously that’s tuneable to some extent with saddle/stem position/angle.

    Generally if your seat tube angle is greater (i.e. closer to vertical), the position will be more aggressive, although with setback seat posts these days most are within a couple degrees of 73. A notable exception is a tri bike which is usually 75+ degrees, which gives you an idea of the riding position tradeoff for aerodynamics/power output versus ability to sit up and look around in traffic.

    I agree with mstone that the frame is not necessarily the biggest determinant of how your bike will ride. My CX bike feels very different on nice rolling wheels and in my experience, tires especially compared to the stock stuff. My flat-bar road bike became a “fast” bike once I switched out the stock wheels, even with it’s wide flat bars.

    #995422
    jabberwocky
    Participant

    @hozn 79142 wrote:

    Yes, obviously jabberwocky has much more experience than I do (I don’t own any bikes with hydros). For me brifters is a requirement on a non-mountaining-bicycle so that limits my options to Shimano hydros (or Sram again if I want a month).

    Right, no question that mechanicals are your best bet for brifters (or bar ends, or basically anything that isn’t a mountainbike lever).

    @hozn 79142 wrote:

    While I’m sure I’ll appreciate hydros when I switch, I would say that single-finger braking is easy on the mechanics (road or mtb) and I have never had “hand fatigue” issues w/ all-day mtb rides.

    It really depends on where you ride. The extreme case is DH racing, which I’ve done quite a bit of. DH runs drop you a thousand+ feet in just a few minutes, over extremely technical trail. Doing practice runs all day, your fingers and forearms get so pumped up from braking that you can barely open your hands at the end of the day. 200mm rotors and hugely powerful hydraulic brakes are the order of the day. I’ve actually seen BB7s get so hot on a DH bike that the red adjuster knobs melted off. :)

    For most trails around here it doesn’t really matter, but when you start getting into the more technical descents in Frederick or the GW Forest (Death March or Super Sweet in the Shed, for example, or the Bear Wallow descent at Elizabeth Furnace) your hands are gonna hurt at the bottom unless your brakes are perfect.

    Don’t get me wrong, BB7s are great brakes; my first MTB ran them and I’ve had two cyclocross bikes with the road version and was happy with all of them. I just think hydros outclass them, and in my almost decade of running various hydros (Hayes, lots of Avids and Formulas) I’ve found them all to be very reliable.

    #995424
    TwoWheelsDC
    Participant

    What Will says.

    Also, when you add bar-ends to a flat bar, you either have to scrunch up your cockpit, or extend the width of the bars. The downsides of the former seem obvious, but the latter is also important, as bar width can make a big difference in comfort…if the bar ends are too wide, and you’ll sacrifice stability and leverage when climbing, and cruising will be uncomfortable because your arms will be spread out in a somewhat unnatural position.

    #995425
    dasgeh
    Participant

    All of that makes sense, but what about butterfly/trekking handlebars? The first time I saw them, my gut feeling was that I wanted them. But I like different.

    Will they work with hydro/MTB disc’s (Sheldon seems to think so)? Will they work better with a touring/CX geometry than flat?

    And will I be sorry that they’re not more “normal” (e.g. I don’t think they work with bar mitts)?

    #995426
    jabberwocky
    Participant

    I think Dirt has a set of trekking bars on one of his bikes, so maybe he can check in. They certainly look like MTB levers and shifters would work, but I’m not entirely sure. You also need to make sure your desired drivetrain would work with MTB shifters.

    #995427
    hozn
    Participant

    @dasgeh 79149 wrote:

    And will I be sorry that they’re not more “normal” (e.g. I don’t think they work with bar mitts)?

    I didn’t realize until recently that road bars are different widths (where the lever bolts) than mtb bars. I think bullhorn tends to use the road standard; not sure where butterfly bars fit in. I see Sheldon’s comments, but also note that his picture has a road lever on those bars (maybe road levers can clamp down enough on the smaller-diameter mtb bars).

    I would say that unless you know you really need a different bar shape, my vote would be to minimize the potential headache (and cost) and stick with standard stuff. If you want a flat-bar bike, get a flat-bar bike (hybrid or flat-bar road) with hydro brakes; if you want a road-style bike get a cx or gravel grinder and drop-bars with brifters (and mechanical or hydro-mechanical disc brakes). The point about bar mitts is a good one. Other accessories will also be built around assumptions that you’re not “one of those weirdos” :) While jabberwocky makes great points about the merits of hydro, I don’t see it being a really big consideration on the road. I would let your bar shape dictate the brakes rather than vice versa; these really will perform very similarly for all practical purposes. And you can always switch to hydros later (or vice versa, I suppose), but you can’t switch a flat bar to a drop bar without also changing the frame.

    #995428
    jabberwocky
    Participant

    @hozn 79151 wrote:

    I would let your bar shape dictate the brakes rather than vice versa; these really will perform very similarly for all practical purposes.

    I fully agree with this. I’ll note that I’ve owned two disc-equipped CX bikes for commuting, and ended up selling them both and only own road bikes now (and my touring bike, which uses v-brakes). Discs are nice on the road, but normal road calipers work perfectly fine IME.

    Choose drop-vs-flat-vs-treking/other based on comfort and geometry, not what components you can hang on it, and go backwards from there.

    #995429
    Phatboing
    Participant

    @dasgeh 79149 wrote:

    All of that makes sense, but what about butterfly/trekking handlebars? The first time I saw them, my gut feeling was that I wanted them. But I like different.

    This is precisely why I have them :)

    @dasgeh 79149 wrote:

    Will they work with hydro/MTB disc’s (Sheldon seems to think so)? Will they work better with a touring/CX geometry than flat?

    And will I be sorry that they’re not more “normal” (e.g. I don’t think they work with bar mitts)?

    They’ll work with MTB levers, definitely. Can’t say for sure about geometry, but they were nice enough on my MTB, especially after I got a longer stem.

    With bar mitts, they’ll technically work, in that you’ll be able to put the bar mitts on. What I’d worry about with that is your hands will be stuck in the flat section, which is the least fun section. (the sides are like bar-ends, and is where I ended up spending most of my time)

    If you want to try em, I’ve got one hanging in my closet right now (much to my SO’s chagrin/amusement, I have more spare handlebars than I have bikes). If you hate them, I’ll have them back, and if you like them, money can change hands, maybe?

    #997482
    Greenbelt
    Participant
    #997484
    dasgeh
    Participant

    @Greenbelt 81312 wrote:

    This is a pretty bike:

    http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/strada/metropoli/metropoli-due/

    It is. I didn’t realize Bianchi had any disc bikes. Too bad the Due doesn’t come in a Dama version — I’d be even more interested…

    #997532
    Greenbelt
    Participant

    @dasgeh 81314 wrote:

    It is. I didn’t realize Bianchi had any disc bikes. Too bad the Due doesn’t come in a Dama version — I’d be even more interested…

    Aw, just get your LBS to custom the cockpit for you, adjust the stem or use a narrower handlebar or whatever you need!

    #999052
    dasgeh
    Participant

    So, after way too much thought and internet research and pondering and wondering and what-not, I realized something: it’s no longer winter.

    I also realized that the two things we’re missing in our bike fleet are: (1) a bike that can commute all the time and (2) an ebike that I could take to work (e.g. when lazy or hurt or need to run around town in work clothes on hot days). I also realized that the smarter thing to do might be just to buy something that checks those boxes, and while I’m at it, could transport kids, e.g. if I drop kid #1 off at school (in a few years) on my way to work. (Because, looking at ebikes that check the first two boxes, there’s not much difference in price to get a mid-tail or long-tail).

    So now I’m looking at three options: Yuba’s elBoda Boda, upgraded with disc brakes; Yuba’s elMundo or xtracycle’s Edgerunner 27D electric family. Thoughts from the forum-nati?

    #999113
    83b
    Participant

    I hear great things from my neighbors that have Yuba Mundos (though not the electric version). The only downside seems to be that the BionX system locks you into using their proprietary batteries when they need replacing in a few years.

    The ebikes.ca guys chose the Edgerunner when they decided to develop and offer an electric cargobike. Apparently, using a 20″ rather than a 26″ rear wheel gives you up to a third more torque from the motor. It also helps keep the cargo deck lower. They offer a couple of packages that seem to offer nice, well thought out builds. One offers an extended range battery (25-35 miles @~20mph). One has a more powerful battery (18-25 miles @~25mph). The third build is the most interesting. It uses a mid-drive system to drive the chain rather than a hub motor. A Patterson 2-speed freewheeling crankset allows the motor to run without forcing the pedals to turn.

    If you decided you like the Edgerunner, there are two options from the ebikes.ca guys that would be worth considering. The first is their Cycle Analyst, which is a cycle computer that also reports motor and battery information. I really like knowing exactly how much battery I’ve used and how many miles I’ve got left on a given charge. The second is their Cycle Lumenator front light. It’s 1,000 lumens and, when mounted low on the bike so as not to blind people if you ride on a trail, is great for both seeing and being seen. I’ve got one mounted under my front rack and have gotten a lot of compliments on it over the years.

Viewing 15 posts - 121 through 135 (of 142 total)
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