What kind of bike do I want: commuting all the time edition

[dasgeh]

In an attempt to un-hijack the other thread, I’ll try to move this discussion here. The short version: I’d like a bike that I’m comfortable commuting in all weather on. My commute is currently 7-8 miles each way, and includes both Capitol Hill and Rosslyn hill (the deal breaker for “it’s kinda comfortable but not really” bikes). I have a Raleigh R500 which is comfortable to ride for a long time but (1) is not upright enough to be comfortable with limited vis (aka ski goggles) in traffic and (2) doesn’t have the clearance and braze-ons for wide tires + fenders. I haven’t ridden a lot of steel, but from what I read, that’s where I should be looking. I haven’t ridden fat tires ever, but I doubt that’s the way I’ll go. I am will to test ride them. Any bike has to be able to get me up Rosslyn hill comfortably (aka not too heavy). I can do basic bike maintenance, but would prefer not to.

I’m almost certainly going to put a back rack, full fenders and a dyna-hub on whatever bike I end up with. Flexibility to, e.g., do some touring in future years (once kids grow up) would be great.

And budget-wise, it looks like I’m going to get a windfall in the next couple months, so I’m not looking for the cheapest thing out there. I’m still an economist at heart, so I do want the best deal and don’t want to pay more than I have to just for a fancy brand.

The conversation so far (thanks everyone who chimed in):
@dasgeh 73925 wrote:

Alas, I didn’t bike to work today. […] I realized that clothing wise, I was fine to bike. But bike-wise is another matter. I have been commuting on 2 bikes: 1) my (Dad’s) Raleigh, which fits very well, but I don’t think has clearance for better tires; and 2) Raleigh Detour Deluxe, my no excuses bike. I love the Raleigh, but I must admit, it is too small for me. It’s just not comfortable enough for the 7.5 mile commute, and I end up dreading the ride home.

So on my bike to lunch (on a CaBi), I swung by BicycleSpace to see what they would recommend for a bike I could use all the time. I was steered toward the Surly Straggler, but might consider another Surly or an All-City… Any thoughts?

And I got some helpful responses:
@cyclingfool 73936 wrote:

Something of a Surly fanboy here, so I think the Straggler would be a fine choice. The Straggler is basically a Cross Check w/ disc brakes, so if you’d rather stick with rim brakes, there’s always the Cross Check as well.

My old bike was a Long Haul Trucker, which I was very partial to and miss immensely. There’s also a Disc Trucker now, if you want disc brakes.

Fitting/sizing info for both Truckers and Cross Checks here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/SurlyLHT/2pGsJfXWb6A in case they don’t have/can’t order the specific size you’d want to test ride.

Either would be good as an all around bike IMO. Straggle/CC should be a little lighter/more nimble than a Trucker if that’s important.

Can’t speak to All-City bikes.

@Riley Casey 73939 wrote:

You like Raleighs? Oh boy, oh boy you need a new, bottomless pit of a bike addiction.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/623699-For-the-love-of-English-3-speeds

@TwoWheelsDC 73940 wrote:

Straggler also comes with STI shifters, IIRC. Compared to bar ends that come standard on the Crosscheck.

@KelOnWheels 73946 wrote:

ALL-CITY!

A Surly Straggler would be awesome, actually. I want one.

But it’s basically the bike I have just with disc brakes.

But I still want one.

@vvill 73965 wrote:

Both brands focus on tough, steel, urban bikes so either would probably be good if that’s what you’re after. All-City have a bit more of a track/CX/700c focus perhaps, and don’t make any MTBs whereas Surly has a presence in all sorts of bikes. All-City’s marketing seems a bit edgier and “epic”, Surly is a bit more off-beat and quirky.

I think figure out what kind of tire clearance you want, and also if you want flat bar or dropbar and if drops – STI or barend shifters. CX-specific bikes will usually fit up to 35mm comfortably but not necessarily that much more – so that may limit your studded tire choice if you plan to get those at some point. Having disc brakes or not will also influence your options quite a bit, if you have a preference on that.

@peterw_diy 73974 wrote:

Belt drive 26er fat tire fixie will take care of you all through the zombie apocalypse.

Don’t brifters suck with gloves/mittens? So I’ve heard… Otherwise, when I go shopping I wish my Cross Check had longer chainstays, and Surly cuts the steer tubes kinda short on their “complete” builds. I’d also like less toe clip overlap. (I shoulda bought a 26er Disc Trucker.) Straggler is one of a few they bother treating for rust, the others you might want to Weigle.

Topic

[Phatboing]

@dasgeh 75750 wrote:

I would love to test ride a Salsa (Vaya, Fargo or Warbird), but I don’t see a local dealer. Anyone know how I could test ride one?

I’ve seen a Salsa in stock at Spokes Vienna on a couple of occasions. The most recent I remember is a Vaya, but that was many moons ago.

If it’s a small frame you seek, I could maybe try and convince myself that letting Someone Else try my Fargo won’t kill me.

[vvill]

@dasgeh 75750 wrote:

Can anyone explain the huge price difference between the Kona Dew Plus and the Kona Jake line?

The Jake line is primarily a CX race line. So the frames are lighter (I would bet that even the basic Jake has lighter aluminum than the aluminum in the Dew Plus), and the components overall are lighter.

The Dew Plus has flat handlebars, not drops, and more entry level components. Drop bar shifters/brakes are much more expensive than basic flat handlebar shifters and brakes.

The Jake is a more aggressive setup but I don’t find it too much for commuting. I have the stem flipped up right now and it’s not a stretched out position at all to me.

Either would work fine as a commuter. The Jake would be better for faster rides, or longer rides. The Dew Plus is arguably better as a commuter as it has a triple (wider gearing), front rack mounts and probably wider tire clearance (not sure on this, but CX bikes are usually designed for 32-35mm, whereas the Dew Plus comes with a 35mm tire to begin with).

I own a 2013 Jake (bought in 2012), which is virtually the same frame as the current 2014 run, so if you have more specific questions, let me know.

[dasgeh]

@Phatboing 75795 wrote:

I’ve seen a Salsa in stock at Spokes Vienna on a couple of occasions. The most recent I remember is a Vaya, but that was many moons ago.

If it’s a small frame you seek, I could maybe try and convince myself that letting Someone Else try my Fargo won’t kill me.

Thank you and thank you. I’m 5’9″, and tend to like me bikes on the small side. So if your frame would work for me, I’d LOVE to try it.

And thanks vvill, too.

Dumb question: which bikes can take butterfly handlebars? In my head, I could use those to get the benefits of flat bars (cheaper shifters, more disk brake options, possible cheaper complete build) and the benefits of drops (more hand positions, more aggressive positioning if I tilt the butterflies down), with the downside of weight and cost of replacing bars.

Also, could one put interrupters on butterfly bars?

[culimerc]

Spokes is an official Salsa dealer I believe. I can not speak highly enough about the salsa vaya. I bought one from Competetive Cyclist and it was comfy and did everything I asked from day one. The only thing I had to change was the Avid BB5 disc brakes were a pain in the neck. They went out of tune *really* fast. I upgraded to the BB7’s. They were more reliable and easier to adjust. The Vaya will also fit upto at least a 45, if not wider.

My wife has a Coda and while we really do like it the widest tires I can get in there are 32’s and even then I have to inflate them while the wheels are mounted in the frame. That is with V-brakes tho. Discs would solve that problem.

[Phatboing]

@dasgeh 75802 wrote:

Thank you and thank you. I’m 5’9″, and tend to like me bikes on the small side. So if your frame would work for me, I’d LOVE to try it.

And thanks vvill, too.

Dumb question: which bikes can take butterfly handlebars? In my head, I could use those to get the benefits of flat bars (cheaper shifters, more disk brake options, possible cheaper complete build) and the benefits of drops (more hand positions, more aggressive positioning if I tilt the butterflies down), with the downside of weight and cost of replacing bars.

Also, could one put interrupters on butterfly bars?

You might be a bit too tall. I have a small Fargo, and I’m 5’5″, and occasionally feel like I want the top tube to be longer (though I’ve been told that my torso is on the longer side for my height). But by all means, if you want to check it out, we can set up a meeting over PM.

I’ve had butterfly bars (Nashbar) on my old Trek 4300, and they can be put on any bike. I had to get a longer stem, because they extend backward a fair bit. I don’t know if you get interrupters for the diameter of the handlebars, however. (far as I know, they come for the 23.whatever road bar dimensions, not the 22.5 MTB bar dimensions)

[cyclingfool]

@dasgeh 75802 wrote:

Dumb question: which bikes can take butterfly handlebars? In my head, I could use those to get the benefits of flat bars (cheaper shifters, more disk brake options, possible cheaper complete build) and the benefits of drops (more hand positions, more aggressive positioning if I tilt the butterflies down), with the downside of weight and cost of replacing bars.

Also, could one put interrupters on butterfly bars?

Any bike could take butterfly bars. It might require a different stem than would come stock (since drop bars are either 26.0 or 31.8 mm in diameter where they attach to the stem, whereas all the butterfly bars I know of are 25.4 mm diameter like flat bars or MTB bars traditionally are. Stem replacement might be advisable anyway, since all things equal, a longer stem is generally recommended for butterfly bars than drop bars. (refer to Sheldon Brown’s site for more info for starters – seems to be giving me issues at the moment os can’t find the exact link) There are

As for interrupter bars, I’m trying to imagine it but am not really seeing it. I suppose depending where you placed the main brake levers, you could do some creative cable guiding and try to do interrupters elsewhere on the bars, but even then I’m having a hard time conceiving of it mentally. A quick Google search doesn’t seem to yield anything either. Maybe someone else has some other ideas.

That said, there are these crazy brake levers on Wikipedia – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hybrid_handlebar.JPG – that look like they’d allow braking from multiple hand positions. Never seen em anywhere else though.

When I was using butterfly bars, I found that just keeping my eyes open and being attentive gave me plenty of time to get to the brakes from a brakes-not-accessible hand position, that and just riding with my hands on/near the brake levers around possible trouble (pedestrians, rough pavement, etc.)

[83b]

@cyclingfool 75823 wrote:

That said, there are these crazy brake levers on Wikipedia – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hybrid_handlebar.JPG – that look like they’d allow braking from multiple hand positions. Never seen em anywhere else though.

Velo Orange carries a Dia Compe lever that’s similar. Seems like they’d be very handy on a porteur-type bar.

[ShawnoftheDread]

REI has a Novara with butterfly bars.
http://www.rei.com/product/807245/novara-safari-bike-2014

[ebubar]

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/tourist-touring-bikes-v.htm#specs

New Windsor Tourist on BikesDirect. Drop-bar, Tiagra/Sora/Deore mix of components. Slightly different frame geometry this year. Slightly downgraded components from the 2013. Still seems to be a good potential deal for a commuter/tourer. Plus you gotta love that orange!

[mstone]

@ebubar 75988 wrote:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/tourist-touring-bikes-v.htm#specs

New Windsor Tourist on BikesDirect. Drop-bar, Tiagra/Sora/Deore mix of components. Slightly different frame geometry this year. Slightly downgraded components from the 2013. Still seems to be a good potential deal for a commuter/tourer. Plus you gotta love that orange!

Tough to test ride.

[dasgeh]

@ebubar 75988 wrote:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/tourist-touring-bikes-v.htm#specs

New Windsor Tourist on BikesDirect. Drop-bar, Tiagra/Sora/Deore mix of components. Slightly different frame geometry this year. Slightly downgraded components from the 2013. Still seems to be a good potential deal for a commuter/tourer. Plus you gotta love that orange!

It is pretty, but no disc brakes. I want stopping POWER!

[hozn]

@dasgeh 76027 wrote:

It is pretty, but no disc brakes. I want stopping POWER!

Yeah, for BD, I think the best choice (and I’m sure this has been proposed earlier in this thread) is: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_cross_pro_ti_xi.htm

(It’s not in stock, but presumably it’ll be back at some point this spring/summer. Or its slightly better-spec brother.)

$1700 for a *titanium* bike with Sram Rival w/ BB7 discs. I love having an unpainted titanium frame for my commuter — especially in this weather; it lets me mostly ignore the fact that its getting covered in salt and then sprayed with water. (I do need to spray the chain down with lube or it rusts.) Periodically I wipe it off with a dry cloth or a brush & call it a day. I would feel like I’d need to pay closer attention with a steel frame — e.g. use frame saver and pay attention to the parts where the paint gets scraped off (like the sliding drops or set screws in the drops).

The only drawback with titanium in my experience is the galling to aluminum parts — e.g. seatposts and bottom brackets (usually the BB doesn’t last long enough, but when I was using the serviceable CK BB, it stayed in for 1 year after which time the threads were totally destroyed). I think the issue is that I should be using anti-seize instead of grease for these parts.

[DismalScientist]

@DismalScientist 74135 wrote:

I just checked the geometry of the Nashbar Steel Touring bike, which is now on sale for $550. It appears to have the same geometry as the Fuji touring bike and, by transitivity, the Windsor Tourist.The Nashbar has 105 components compared to the Tourist’s Tiagra/Deore mix. Nashbar is only selling a 43 cm size, which suggests that it is being discontinued.

The 43 cm Nashbar Steel Touring bike is now down to $399. If any diminutive people are interested in this, I suggest that now is the time to bite.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@DismalScientist 76051 wrote:

The 43 cm Nashbar Steel Touring bike is now down to $399. If any diminutive people are interested in this, I suggest that now is the time to bite.

Probably a good deal just for the components (though I’m not positive about that).

[83b]

Looking back at Hozn’s post (which reads pretty much like my dream bike features as well), the new Niner RLT9 checks off just about all of these boxes. I think the only difference is that it’s Al rather than Ti. Saw it for the first time via a Wrench Science email.

Clocks in at just over $1K and 3lbs for the frame. I had fun playing with it on Wrench Science’s bike configurator during lunch. If it came out to approximately the same price as for a Habanero, I’d probably prefer to wait it out for the custom Ti Frame, but it’s great that there’s a production option available! I don’t have any idea who is a Niner dealer and it sounds like this won’t be in stores before February.

@hozn 74522 wrote:

If I was building a commuter, my checklist for frame features would be:
– titanium, brushed. Low-maintenance as it gets.
– disc brake mounts on the chain stay (for fender clearance)
– rack and fender mounts
– 44mm head tube so I could use inset headsets for tapered forks (becoming more standard, the only current option for full-carbon cx disc forks).
– internal shifter cable routing holes (solves di2 compat too with seatpost battery).
– zip tie “stops” for the brakes so I can run solid housing
– BSA bottom bracket. Maybe PF30, but in general not wowed by these competing standards.
– clearance for up to at least 40mm tires.

I don’t know that this exists, so I would probably have that built custom by Habanero, XACD, or Titan Products. So $1000-$1500 range, but it would be perfect. And obviously geometry could be specified too.

[Author]

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