What kind of bike do I want: commuting all the time edition

[dasgeh]

In an attempt to un-hijack the other thread, I’ll try to move this discussion here. The short version: I’d like a bike that I’m comfortable commuting in all weather on. My commute is currently 7-8 miles each way, and includes both Capitol Hill and Rosslyn hill (the deal breaker for “it’s kinda comfortable but not really” bikes). I have a Raleigh R500 which is comfortable to ride for a long time but (1) is not upright enough to be comfortable with limited vis (aka ski goggles) in traffic and (2) doesn’t have the clearance and braze-ons for wide tires + fenders. I haven’t ridden a lot of steel, but from what I read, that’s where I should be looking. I haven’t ridden fat tires ever, but I doubt that’s the way I’ll go. I am will to test ride them. Any bike has to be able to get me up Rosslyn hill comfortably (aka not too heavy). I can do basic bike maintenance, but would prefer not to.

I’m almost certainly going to put a back rack, full fenders and a dyna-hub on whatever bike I end up with. Flexibility to, e.g., do some touring in future years (once kids grow up) would be great.

And budget-wise, it looks like I’m going to get a windfall in the next couple months, so I’m not looking for the cheapest thing out there. I’m still an economist at heart, so I do want the best deal and don’t want to pay more than I have to just for a fancy brand.

The conversation so far (thanks everyone who chimed in):
@dasgeh 73925 wrote:

Alas, I didn’t bike to work today. […] I realized that clothing wise, I was fine to bike. But bike-wise is another matter. I have been commuting on 2 bikes: 1) my (Dad’s) Raleigh, which fits very well, but I don’t think has clearance for better tires; and 2) Raleigh Detour Deluxe, my no excuses bike. I love the Raleigh, but I must admit, it is too small for me. It’s just not comfortable enough for the 7.5 mile commute, and I end up dreading the ride home.

So on my bike to lunch (on a CaBi), I swung by BicycleSpace to see what they would recommend for a bike I could use all the time. I was steered toward the Surly Straggler, but might consider another Surly or an All-City… Any thoughts?

And I got some helpful responses:
@cyclingfool 73936 wrote:

Something of a Surly fanboy here, so I think the Straggler would be a fine choice. The Straggler is basically a Cross Check w/ disc brakes, so if you’d rather stick with rim brakes, there’s always the Cross Check as well.

My old bike was a Long Haul Trucker, which I was very partial to and miss immensely. There’s also a Disc Trucker now, if you want disc brakes.

Fitting/sizing info for both Truckers and Cross Checks here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/SurlyLHT/2pGsJfXWb6A in case they don’t have/can’t order the specific size you’d want to test ride.

Either would be good as an all around bike IMO. Straggle/CC should be a little lighter/more nimble than a Trucker if that’s important.

Can’t speak to All-City bikes.

@Riley Casey 73939 wrote:

You like Raleighs? Oh boy, oh boy you need a new, bottomless pit of a bike addiction.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/623699-For-the-love-of-English-3-speeds

@TwoWheelsDC 73940 wrote:

Straggler also comes with STI shifters, IIRC. Compared to bar ends that come standard on the Crosscheck.

@KelOnWheels 73946 wrote:

ALL-CITY!

A Surly Straggler would be awesome, actually. I want one.

But it’s basically the bike I have just with disc brakes.

But I still want one.

@vvill 73965 wrote:

Both brands focus on tough, steel, urban bikes so either would probably be good if that’s what you’re after. All-City have a bit more of a track/CX/700c focus perhaps, and don’t make any MTBs whereas Surly has a presence in all sorts of bikes. All-City’s marketing seems a bit edgier and “epic”, Surly is a bit more off-beat and quirky.

I think figure out what kind of tire clearance you want, and also if you want flat bar or dropbar and if drops – STI or barend shifters. CX-specific bikes will usually fit up to 35mm comfortably but not necessarily that much more – so that may limit your studded tire choice if you plan to get those at some point. Having disc brakes or not will also influence your options quite a bit, if you have a preference on that.

@peterw_diy 73974 wrote:

Belt drive 26er fat tire fixie will take care of you all through the zombie apocalypse.

Don’t brifters suck with gloves/mittens? So I’ve heard… Otherwise, when I go shopping I wish my Cross Check had longer chainstays, and Surly cuts the steer tubes kinda short on their “complete” builds. I’d also like less toe clip overlap. (I shoulda bought a 26er Disc Trucker.) Straggler is one of a few they bother treating for rust, the others you might want to Weigle.

Topic

[ShawnoftheDread]

@hozn 74522 wrote:

If I was building a commuter, my checklist for frame features would be:
– titanium, brushed. Low-maintenance as it gets.
– disc brake mounts on the chain stay (for fender clearance)
– rack and fender mounts
– 44mm head tube so I could use inset headsets for tapered forks (becoming more standard, the only current option for full-carbon cx disc forks).
– internal shifter cable routing holes (solves di2 compat too with seatpost battery).
– zip tie “stops” for the brakes so I can run solid housing
– BSA bottom bracket. Maybe PF30, but in general not wowed by these competing standards.
– clearance for up to at least 40mm tires.

I don’t know that this exists, so I would probably have that built custom by Habanero, XACD, or Titan Products. So $1000-$1500 range, but it would be perfect. And obviously geometry could be specified too.

That price estimate is just for the frameset, right?

[83b]

@ShawnoftheDread 74624 wrote:

That price estimate is just for the frameset, right?

I was actually a bit surprised to hear that there were any manufacturers producing Ti frames at that reasonable price point. Most used Ti frames that I see are in that range.

[dasgeh]

So I FINALLY got some time to go ride some bikes. It was awesome. Some things I learned / have settled on:

1) I do not like bar end shifters. I wanted to, I really did. But I like having my hands on the brakes AT ALL TIMES, or close to that. And I like shifting. More than I realized. 1+1 = I do not like bar end shifters.
2) I want something more aggressive than a mountain bike frame (I tested the Surly Ogre, which is otherwise a great ride), but more upright than a road bike. This seems to land me in Cyclocross/touring/”hybrid” land.
3) I can’t tell if I should consider flat bars, or focus on drops.
4) I do like fatter tires, way more than expected. I think the fattest I tried were around 41s, but that’s by far the fattest I’ve ever ridden.

I tested the Surly Ogre, Surly Long Haul Trucker (not the disc, though they could get me one), Surly Straggler and Jamis Coda Comp (the Coda Elite has disc brakes; same frame). Ogre is too upright. LHT did not get much of a test ride because I did not like shifting it and I didn’t riding while not shifting. In the round-the-block circle I did, I liked the geometry. The Straggler is super cute, and after extra adjusting, I think I like the geometry. It may be a little twitchy for my taste. The Jamis Coda seemed sturdy, possibly too upright, but I don’t think so. I’d need to do a 8+ mile ride to be sure I’d be ok with flat bars.

Those are about all of my options at Bicycle Space. Anything else I should try?

I’m thinking of calling Daily Rider and seeing what options they have.

[83b]

@dasgeh 75724 wrote:

I’m thinking of calling Daily Rider and seeing what options they have.

Last time I was in the Daily Rider they had a sweet Spot Ajax and Wazee in stock. If you’re still considering flat bars and internal gear hubs those could be a lot of fun to test out.

[peterw_diy]

@dasgeh 75724 wrote:

I do not like bar end shifters. I wanted to, I really did. But I like having my hands on the brakes AT ALL TIMES, or close to that. And I like shifting. More than I realized. 1+1 = I do not like bar end shifters.

For touring-ish bikes, the rear cluster usually has a broad range of gears — 9 speed 11-34 is common. So you’re typically not shifting very often — certainly not like you would with an 11 speed 11-23 cassette.

I don’t say that to sell you on bar-ends (even though they are the best shifters in the history of the multiverses, well, maybe), but to note that you might also want a tightly spaced road cluster in the rear if you really like pushing your RD around.

[cyclingfool]

@dasgeh 75724 wrote:

So I FINALLY got some time to go ride some bikes. It was awesome. Some things I learned / have settled on:

1) I do not like bar end shifters. I wanted to, I really did. But I like having my hands on the brakes AT ALL TIMES, or close to that. And I like shifting. More than I realized. 1+1 = I do not like bar end shifters.
2) I want something more aggressive than a mountain bike frame (I tested the Surly Ogre, which is otherwise a great ride), but more upright than a road bike. This seems to land me in Cyclocross/touring/”hybrid” land.
3) I can’t tell if I should consider flat bars, or focus on drops.
4) I do like fatter tires, way more than expected. I think the fattest I tried were around 41s, but that’s by far the fattest I’ve ever ridden.

I tested the Surly Ogre, Surly Long Haul Trucker (not the disc, though they could get me one), Surly Straggler and Jamis Coda Comp (the Coda Elite has disc brakes; same frame). Ogre is too upright. LHT did not get much of a test ride because I did not like shifting it and I didn’t riding while not shifting. In the round-the-block circle I did, I liked the geometry. The Straggler is super cute, and after extra adjusting, I think I like the geometry. It may be a little twitchy for my taste. The Jamis Coda seemed sturdy, possibly too upright, but I don’t think so. I’d need to do a 8+ mile ride to be sure I’d be ok with flat bars.

Those are about all of my options at Bicycle Space. Anything else I should try?

I’m thinking of calling Daily Rider and seeing what options they have.

Depending on your budget, you could potentially buy a Surly LHT frame/fork only and have it build up with STI, or buy an LHT and swap out the bar ends shifters and brake levers for STI, whichever is more cost effective — the latter might actually be cheaper. Surly bikes have the advantage of being very friendly to fat tires. As they say, “Fatties Fit Fine.” Just a thought…

[mstone]

@cyclingfool 75733 wrote:

Depending on your budget, you could potentially buy a Surly LHT frame/fork only and have it build up with STI, or buy an LHT and swap out the bar ends shifters and brake levers for STI, whichever is more cost effective — the latter might actually be cheaper. Surly bikes have the advantage of being very friendly to fat tires. As they say, “Fatties Fit Fine.” Just a thought…

I’d look at a salsa vaya first. Same company, same tire clearance, set up with brifters by default and a different geometry. Maybe a bit less tank-like (for good or bad).

[KayakCyndi]

@dasgeh 75724 wrote:

So I FINALLY got some time to go ride some bikes. It was awesome. Some things I learned / have settled on:

1) I do not like bar end shifters. I wanted to, I really did. But I like having my hands on the brakes AT ALL TIMES, or close to that. And I like shifting. More than I realized. 1+1 = I do not like bar end shifters.
2) I want something more aggressive than a mountain bike frame (I tested the Surly Ogre, which is otherwise a great ride), but more upright than a road bike. This seems to land me in Cyclocross/touring/”hybrid” land.
3) I can’t tell if I should consider flat bars, or focus on drops.
4) I do like fatter tires, way more than expected. I think the fattest I tried were around 41s, but that’s by far the fattest I’ve ever ridden.

I tested the Surly Ogre, Surly Long Haul Trucker (not the disc, though they could get me one), Surly Straggler and Jamis Coda Comp (the Coda Elite has disc brakes; same frame). Ogre is too upright. LHT did not get much of a test ride because I did not like shifting it and I didn’t riding while not shifting. In the round-the-block circle I did, I liked the geometry. The Straggler is super cute, and after extra adjusting, I think I like the geometry. It may be a little twitchy for my taste. The Jamis Coda seemed sturdy, possibly too upright, but I don’t think so. I’d need to do a 8+ mile ride to be sure I’d be ok with flat bars.

Those are about all of my options at Bicycle Space. Anything else I should try?

I’m thinking of calling Daily Rider and seeing what options they have.

You NEED to try a Viaje. Call Jan or Brian at Bikenetic or test ride mine. Super fun. Big rubber no problem. Disc brakes rock. Speedy enough for pavement yet super fun on trails. Only downside, you may need more than one wheelset …

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4577[/ATTACH]

[cyclingfool]

@mstone 75734 wrote:

I’d look at a salsa vaya first. Same company, same tire clearance, set up with brifters by default and a different geometry. Maybe a bit less tank-like (for good or bad).

This is a good point… I was trying to work w/in the selection she had mentioned, but Salsa’s are great bikes, too.

[guga31bb]

@KayakCyndi 75742 wrote:

You NEED to try a Viaje. Call Jan or Brian at Bikenetic or test ride mine. Super fun. Big rubber no problem. Disc brakes rock. Speedy enough for pavement yet super fun on trails. Only downside, you may need more than one wheelset …

If you go to Bikenetic (which I highly recommend; they are awesome), might as well try a Kona Jake the Snake while you’re at it . Disc brakes, fan fit fenders/racks, is pretty (subjective), and comfortable (also subjective).

[dasgeh]

Thanks all, LHT is still in the running as a custom build.

I would love to test ride a Salsa (Vaya, Fargo or Warbird), but I don’t see a local dealer. Anyone know how I could test ride one?

Thank you Cyndi. I’ll definitely call Bikenetic (though probably not til the weekend…)

FYI, my “would really like to try list” is now:
Kona Dew Plus (size 49?)
Kona Jake / the snake
Salsa Fargo
Salsa Vaya
Salsa Warbird?
Jamis Bosanova? (BB5)
Viaje
Macho Man Disc

Can anyone explain the huge price difference between the Kona Dew Plus and the Kona Jake line?

[guga31bb]

If you’re too lazy to call Bikenetic, in my experience they are very responsive to email. They’re also super nice, offer free tuneups for life (the only shop like that in the DC area I’ve found), and usually aren’t super busy so I don’t feel guilty for stopping by.

Okay I’ll stop evangelizing now

[Subby]

@dasgeh 75750 wrote:

Can anyone explain the huge price difference between the Kona Dew Plus and the Kona Jake line?

http://www.konaworld.com/comparerd.cfm?compcol1=dew_plus

I used that link and added the Jake the Snake.

Jake the Snake has a carbon fork and upgraded components. Someone more experienced can probably tell if it’s $1,000 worth of upgrades…I have no idea.

[Subby]

@guga31bb 75755 wrote:

If you’re too lazy to call Bikenetic, in my experience they are very responsive to email. They’re also super nice, offer free tuneups for life (the only shop like that in the DC area I’ve found), and usually aren’t super busy so I don’t feel guilty for stopping by.

Okay I’ll stop evangelizing now

They are seriously the nicest people I have ever run in to at a bike shop. I feel guilty for not buying a bike there yet. Jan and Brian know their $%^!.

[hozn]

So the Salsa Warbird looks very cool, but i don’t think it has rack/fender mounts, it being race-focused. The Colossal also looks neat, but is more of a road bike that fits 28c tires. And probably also doesn’t have fender mounts. The Vaya looks awesome, though, and the new colors are nice!

[Author]

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