"Stop" Sign

[btj]

@mstone 125645 wrote:

Pretty much every study ever shows that they are remarkably effective, but people are scared of them because something.

Because change. People always fear what they’re not used to.

And I’m just talking about this intersection in particular with what I think are limited sight issues and the ability for drivers to blow through here without tapping their brakes. But I’m no traffic engineer – if this is a prime candidate, go for it.

[scoot]

@chris_s 125640 wrote:

His secret: He reported a location that isn’t that busy during rush hour.

ACPD on Monday did a hilarious job of tap-dancing around the fact that they basically don’t do evening rush hour enforcement at Lynn & Lee because it would cause too much congestion.

Safety is our #1 priority… unless it inconveniences drivers.

[dasgeh]

@mstone 125645 wrote:

Pretty much every study ever shows that they are remarkably effective, but people are scared of them because something.

Roundabouts are pretty bad for pedestrians and cyclists if there’s more than one lane in each direction.

[mstone]

@dasgeh 125736 wrote:

Roundabouts are pretty bad for pedestrians and cyclists if there’s more than one lane in each direction.

Yes, there’s generally no good reason to have more than one lane. Multilane roundabouts aren’t particularly great for motorists, either, and only a pavement fetish keeps such things going.

[DaveK]

@Tim Kelley 125642 wrote:

Huh…http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090621/COLUMNIST/906211023

Good article, but here’s a fun fact.

Quote:

Michael Wallwork is president of Alternate Street Design, P.A., in Orange Park. A consultant to Sarasota County, he has more than 32 years of experience in traffic engineering and design, and has designed more than 500 roundabouts in five countries, including the roundabout in Clearwater Beach.

The roundabout in Clearwater Beach was a disaster as originally designed. It was installed with a fountain that ruined sight lines around the circle and the entrances and exits were too close together. They had to spend millions more to fix the geometry and remove the hugely expensive fountain from the center. It was used when I was in school as a “what not to do” example.

[KLizotte]

@dasgeh 125736 wrote:

Roundabouts are pretty bad for pedestrians and cyclists if there’s more than one lane in each direction.

As they are designed here in the US that is true. But if you travel to Iceland you will find correctly designed double lane roundabouts that operate remarkably efficiently and safely.

In a nutshell, there is an inner and outer lane. If you move into the outer lane you *must* take the next exit; this is reinforced via curbs or lane markings. This means that if you are approaching a roundabout you only have to worry about the cars in the inner lane approaching from the left because cars in the outer lane will be turning into your street since that is their required exit.

I drove through a double lane roundabout with six entry points and found it super easy and fast to negotiate (compared to a traditional intersection). It all comes down to enforcing strict behavior on how drivers act in the inner and outer rings, best reinforced with physical barriers. The problem with roundabouts in the US is drivers are allowed to continue past exits in the outer ring and drivers often try to make their exit from the inner ring. Chaos ensues.

I also walked around a few of these roundabouts and found it easy. You only have to worry about crossing one lane at a time due to islands at each entry point and the curves of the entry and exit points make drivers slow way down.

I’m at a loss as to why we don’t see that design here or most places for that matter. It really does work well. That said not all of the circles in Iceland were designed to this standard but drivers negotiated them well because they knew the rules of engagement. Limiting drivers choices when going thru a roundabout seems to be the key.

Now this is an example of what NOT to do in the States. Photo taken of a roundabout in Swindon, England.

[IMG]http://bikearlingtonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9808&stc=1[/IMG]

[consularrider]

That looks as confusing as all get out and reminds me of some Celtic designs. I think what it boils down to is what the driver is used to and how disciplined. Unfortunately there is too much of the “I am more important than anyone else” mentality along with a societal “every man for himself” in the U.S right now. I might make some political observations (now that I’m no longer restricted from doing so), but this really isn’t the right forum for that.

[83b]

@KLizotte 125849 wrote:

In a nutshell, there is an inner and outer lane. If you move into the outer lane you *must* take the next exit; this is reinforced via curbs or lane markings. This means that if you are approaching a roundabout you only have to worry about the cars in the inner lane approaching from the left because cars in the outer lane will be turning into your street since that is their required exit. [/IMG]

Pinehurst NC has a roundabout like this that works quite well.

The biggest issue is that the circle’s diameter is big enough that cars in the inner lane can maintain too much speed. To combat speeding they patrol it regularly. And during big golf events, to prevent back ups, they have a local police cruiser circle it at 35mph so that cars have a gap to enter.

[83b]

@KLizotte 125849 wrote:

In a nutshell, there is an inner and outer lane. If you move into the outer lane you *must* take the next exit; this is reinforced via curbs or lane markings. This means that if you are approaching a roundabout you only have to worry about the cars in the inner lane approaching from the left because cars in the outer lane will be turning into your street since that is their required exit. [/IMG]

Pinehurst NC has a roundabout like this that works quite well.

The biggest issue is that the circle’s diameter is big enough that cars in the inner lane can maintain too much speed. To combat speeding they patrol it regularly. And during big golf events, to prevent back ups, they have a local police cruiser circle it at 35mph so that cars have a gap to enter.

[KLizotte]

@83(b) 125879 wrote:

Pinehurst NC has a roundabout like this that works quite well.

The biggest issue is that the circle’s diameter is big enough that cars in the inner lane can maintain too much speed. To combat speeding they patrol it regularly. And during big golf events, to prevent back ups, they have a local police cruiser circle it at 35mph so that cars have a gap to enter.

The one I am thinking of in Rekjavik is much smaller than the one in Pinehurst but some of the thinking behind the design elements are the same. The one in Pinehurst is so big that the entrances and exits are more akin to highway merges than what a traditional roundabout in a city center would have.

Wow, talk about nausea inducing gig: just riding around the circle round and round…

[mstone]

@83(b) 125879 wrote:

Pinehurst NC has a roundabout like this that works quite well.

The biggest issue is that the circle’s diameter is big enough that cars in the inner lane can maintain too much speed. To combat speeding they patrol it regularly. And during big golf events, to prevent back ups, they have a local police cruiser circle it at 35mph so that cars have a gap to enter.

This is again the problem with having this conversation in this country. If you’re going 35MPH and there’s a freakin’ forest in the middle, it’s a traffic circle rather than a roundabout. Just because they are both round does not mean that they are otherwise comparable. I’d expect to die if I had to walk across that monstrosity, but I suppose that one could safely set up a hobo camp in the central forest and not have to worry about unwanted guests.

[mstone]

@KLizotte 125849 wrote:

Now this is an example of what NOT to do in the States. Photo taken of a roundabout in Swindon, England.

[IMG]http://bikearlingtonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9808&stc=1[/IMG]

The magic roundabout in swindon has both a remarkable safety record and the honor of having been voted one of the scariest roads in England. The two are related: people are so terrified of that thing that they tend to drive slowly through it. More terrifying is the fact that it only got 4th place in the scariest road list.

[btj]

Looks like there was a car vs bike crash today at the intersection from my original video. The driver and cyclist were both standing on the sidewalk when I went by so it didn’t look like any major injuries. Police were there and the car was stopped just past the stop sign (the same sign that all the drivers blew through in the original video I posted). Sadly it was only a matter of time but I’m glad it looked like there were no serious injuries.

[Author]

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