Haines Point lunchtime riders etiquette

[Mantadiver]

I know I may catch hell for this but I want to call out some very bad rider behavior. I left early from work today and decided to do some loops at Haines Point on the way home. I ride quite a bit there myself but I have never seen one group ride more dangerously than the group that rides during lunch there. They almost took me out twice. The first time the group passed me way too close, so close one woman actually hit my handlebars and almost sent me down. It is not like there isn’t a lot of space to pass, they had 1 1/2 lanes to do so. I was riding in the middle of the right lane. She just kept peddling and said nothing to me until I confronted her and her companion told me she apologized and to get out of the way. I wonder who she apologized to. It wasn’t me. I guess they own the road. Some of the cyclists did apologize for her, but to be ignored by the person that hit me pissed me off. Here is a video of that encounter[video=youtube_share;IvjZqOnK0UM]http://youtu.be/IvjZqOnK0UM[/video]:

Continued on the next post (I guess you can only post one video)…

[Mantadiver]

A few laps latter the group made a very dangerous pass at the second gate at Ohio and Buckeye Dr. They didn’t slow down for the turn or stop sign and passed me with no regard. I could have gone straight at the gate and it would have taken many of them out. I was forced to turn right or get run over. Here is that video: [video=youtube_share;5SANW_Ciyjg]http://youtu.be/5SANW_Ciyjg[/video]

I am not a perfect cyclist. I do Idaho stops but I value my safety and others. These cyclists treat Haines Point like their personal velodrome. If I was in a race with them I would understand, but I am on a 30 LB commuter bike loaded down with panniers just out to get some exercise on the way home. I bet a few in that lunchtime group read this board. Please change your behavior and respect others. It’s not your park to do as you wish.

[PotomacCyclist]

The woman seems to be at fault, but I don’t think you handled the situation well at all. I don’t know what you look like, but it would be reasonable for that woman to be afraid of an angry man berating her and chasing her down. You really need to think of that as well. It’s very likely that she and her friends might have been concerned that you would assault that woman. It doesn’t excuse the initial bump, or the high-speed group turn later on, but I don’t think you will get the overwhelming support here that you’re looking for. Sorry.

And no, I was not one of those riders today. (I’ve barely ridden over the past 6 weeks at all.) I don’t ride on afternoon group rides at Hains Point, or any group rides there (because I’m not that comfortable with pacelines and pelotons). I don’t know those people, or you, so I’m just going by your posts in this thread and the two videos, both of which I watched.

[Mantadiver]

She didn’t just bump me, she passed way to close (as well as many of the other riders) and she hit my handlebars which can’t be seen from the video because of the angle. I came close to going down and she didn’t even acknowledge that she did anything. I really do not appreciate you inferring that I threatened her. You can hear the audio. I just wanted an acknowledgment and apology. If you blow that kind of stuff off than more power to you.

[TwoWheelsDC]

Yeah man, if I accidentally bumped into someone, I’d definitely look back and make sure I didn’t make them go down, and then I’d at the very least give some sort of hand gesture to make it clear I realized what I just did. I don’t know how I would’ve reacted in the same situation, but I do know that I’m much more likely to get confrontational when my safety has just been jeopardized and my adrenaline is pumping, so I certainly don’t judge you for handling it the way you did.

I was out there this afternoon as well and got passed by a big group, but I didn’t pay enough attention to tell if it’s the same group. They only passed me once while I was on my first of three laps, so I’m guessing they were done by the time I saw them, but they did the same “boxing in” maneuver to me at the stop sign at Ohio/Buckeye. Thankfully I was turning right anyway, but it would’ve been extremely dangerous to have attempted to go straight. I definitely did see the guy in the Molteni jersey though. I remember because I judged him hard for it, since it was clearly polyester and not wool….

[btj]

Completely off topic but how did you get your speed and map on the video? That’s pretty nice.

[Mantadiver]

I use the Garmin Virb http://sites.garmin.com/virb/ If you view the map with Garmin’s software there is even more data that can be displayed such as a better map, heart rate and cadence.

[Harry Meatmotor]

I know this is going to come off as arrogant or apologist for the poor behavior of those riders, but what happened there is pretty common if you’re used to riding in groups. it’s not “good,” that’s for sure, but there’s one simple concept that applies to any kind of riding (well, except for spinning on a trainer in your basement): your front wheel is your responsibility.

Yes, they passed too closely, and yes, she should have apologized immediately for bumping you (which she did later, and many of her cohorts did on her behalf), but I’m going to go out on a limb and assume that the majority of those riders have participated in races of some sort, where bumping elbows, hips, and shoulders is just what happens, especially when negotiating corners in a group. folks who race (or ride in groups) just get used to the contact – in fact, some riders actually practice “bump drills” where contact between riders is mandatory, to build confidence and bike handling skills. And if you bump somebody unintentionally, it’s generally not the kind of thing that group riders get too worked up over. Sure, we might yell things like “HOLD YOUR LINE” if somebody starts chopping a corner, but at the end of the day, i know that my front wheel is my responsibility.

Again – I know that sounds like I’m defending those ELITE SOBs, but it helps to understand where they’re coming from, too. The only other advice I can give is when you hear a bunch of chatter that sounds like a large-ish 2×2 paceline, stay to your right and ride predictably – no swerving or braking.

let the Dislikes fly!

[Mantadiver]

You missed the whole point of what I wrote. I should not have to adapt to their riding behavior, they should behave in a responsible manner. Haines Point is not a sanctioned race course. Are you going to tell a 12 year old that he is responsible for his front wheel when he is learning to ride and he is bumped? There used to be a very elderly gentleman who did laps there very slowly, but he was out there everyday for quite a while. I would hate to see him get bumped or cut off on a turn because the “elite” riders had to cut a second off their best lap time.

[AFHokie]

I’d be pretty upset if someone bumped me like that and would’ve like tossed a few expletives myself, but I agree with TwoWheels in that you could’ve handled it much better. I’m not saying I’d have done any better, but I think the best thing you could’ve done is slowed down or stopped until you’re emotions cooled and let the group pass. When I first moved to the DC area, the best piece of advice I received was ‘don’t take driving personally’. I find I often repeat that advice to myself while I’m on my bike as well.

Now about the pack… It’s visually clear to anyone he’s not riding with them; not kitted up, not on a road bike, etc so the members of that pack should’ve given him a wide berth. A group of riders used to the jostling/bumping that occurs in a race does not excuse hers or the entire group’s behavior. Race car drivers are used to driving at high speeds inches apart with occasional contact. However, what do you think would be the response if a group of professional drivers did that to a random car on the highway? His situation was exactly the same.

Lastly, the group running the stop sign in your second video…at the beginning there was a van trying to make a left turn; by failing to stop the group cut him off. How’s the group any different than a car making the right without coming to a full stop? They did an excellent job reenforcing the ‘cyclists are assholes’ stereotype.

[Sunyata]

@Harry Meatmotor 95954 wrote:

I know this is going to come off as arrogant or apologist for the poor behavior of those riders, but what happened there is pretty common if you’re used to riding in groups. it’s not “good,” that’s for sure, but there’s one simple concept that applies to any kind of riding (well, except for spinning on a trainer in your basement): your front wheel is your responsibility.

Yes, they passed too closely, and yes, she should have apologized immediately for bumping you (which she did later, and many of her cohorts did on her behalf), but I’m going to go out on a limb and assume that the majority of those riders have participated in races of some sort, where bumping elbows, hips, and shoulders is just what happens, especially when negotiating corners in a group. folks who race (or ride in groups) just get used to the contact – in fact, some riders actually practice “bump drills” where contact between riders is mandatory, to build confidence and bike handling skills. And if you bump somebody unintentionally, it’s generally not the kind of thing that group riders get too worked up over. Sure, we might yell things like “HOLD YOUR LINE” if somebody starts chopping a corner, but at the end of the day, i know that my front wheel is my responsibility.

Again – I know that sounds like I’m defending those ELITE SOBs, but it helps to understand where they’re coming from, too. The only other advice I can give is when you hear a bunch of chatter that sounds like a large-ish 2×2 paceline, stay to your right and ride predictably – no swerving or braking.

let the Dislikes fly!

You know… I hate conflict, but I have to say that this is probably the worst response that anyone could make to a situation like this. People who race are fairly comfortable making body contact with other racers. No one will dispute that. However, there is a HUGE difference between bumping another racer (or even another rider in your group that you are familiar with) and bumping someone that you do not know, who is obviously not racing/riding aggressively. The OP was on a flat bar commuter bike with racks and panniers. He was not on a race bike, nor was he riding aggressively.

And I will tell you that if someone had bumped me like that, I would have probably reacted in a similar manner. It was a dangerous and irresponsible thing for those riders to ride that close and for the woman that hit him to just ride off and not even acknowledge that she hit him was a douche move, IMO. Had that been a car that did that to the OP, you would be in an uproar (and rightly so). Just because you are on a bike does not give you the right to act like a dangerous jerk. No matter WHAT your riding background or skills.

This is not the first thread that has been posted about the dangerous group riding that goes on at Haines Point. In fact, I am terrified to ride there because of all the negative publicity that these groups get and it makes me angry and incredibly sad that there are cyclists out there that have such utter disregard for other cyclists. :confused:

ETA: Apparently my inability to watch an entire video has caught up with me… I did not see where the OP chased down the offending rider, I only watched up to the point where the two other group riders apologized on her behalf. So while I would have yelled at the offending rider to watch out (with a few choice words thrown in) and perhaps asked (maybe not politely) for an apology, I would not have chased her down (first of all, I am not fast enough but mostly because I hate conflict). I also did not hear the OP threaten the rider, so I can not comment on that.

[creadinger]

@Sunyata 95957 wrote:

You know… I hate conflict…….

This is exactly the personality that type-A d-bags feast on. They expect no one will step up when they’re acting irresponsibly or selfish and act like nothing happened or you’re over-reacting when you do.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@Sunyata 95957 wrote:

And I will tell you that if someone had bumped me like that, I would have probably reacted in the exact same way.

And if someone had bumped me like that, I would have not thought it a big deal.

Neither of our positions is correct, but one is less inflammatory.

[baiskeli]

If we were bumped by a stranger while I was riding solo, I probably wouldn’t think it was a big deal, but I’d be really mad if the bumper rode by completely ignoring me without apology or even acknowledgement. That appears to be the problem here – not the bump, but the reaction.

[Crickey7]

In my book, if you bump someone outside of a race, you immediately check to see if they’re okay and you say you’re sorry. That’s pretty much as cardinal a rule as I know.

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