Good News on Infrastructure thread

[mstone]

@chris_s 117649 wrote:

How about creating a new discussion topic about advisory bike lanes and letting this thread go back to Good News?

Hey, I’m not the one who put the news in the wrong thread!

[scoot]

@lordofthemark 117633 wrote:

I am skeptical that opposing this would have increased the chances of bike lanes on those roads. It might have lost BPAC an ally, by alienating folks in this neighborhood who wanted this.

You are right. I didn’t mean to imply that anyone should have opposed the reconfiguration for that reason.

I’m just cynical that tepid allies in city government will try to placate the cycling community by pointing to these types of accomplishments (“see look at how many bike lanes we’ve installed this year”), while punting on the arterials (and the Royal St boulevard). That concern doesn’t mean that good small projects like Potomac Greens should be ditched. It just means that the next time public officials brag about how many miles of bike infrastructure they’re responsible for, we need to call out these folks for shooting fish in a barrel and avoiding the important battles.

[lordofthemark]

@mstone 117646 wrote:

We seem to not be communicating. I’m talking about making the same center lane, the same width, just calling it “one narrow two way lane to calm traffic because drivers are incapable of going the speed limit on their own” rather than “a bike project”. Cyclists would get the same benefit of calmed traffic, and people who are determined not to take the lane could ride on the shoulder. But with the added benefit of not announcing that cyclists are supposed to be in the box next to the car doors even on a quiet neighborhood street.

So basically paint the same road geometry, but call the “advisory bike lane” an “adjacent to the parking area shoulder” instead, and just not put in the signage and the painted picture of a cyclist that indicates a bike lane?

A. I am not sure it would be legal in Va to have a shoulder on the inside of a parking lane like that.

B. The neighbors, who apparently want their kids to have bike lanes to bike in, and who I suppose not taught their kids about biking in shoulders, when that is and is not a good idea, etc, probably would not like it.

I think the adjacent to the parking lane shoulder, even if it were legal, would be more confusing to the general public than this is.

[lordofthemark]

@scoot 117653 wrote:

You are right. I didn’t mean to imply that anyone should have opposed the reconfiguration for that reason.

I’m just cynical that tepid allies in city government will try to placate the cycling community by pointing to these types of accomplishments (“see look at how many bike lanes we’ve installed this year”), while punting on the arterials (and the Royal St boulevard). That concern doesn’t mean that good small projects like Potomac Greens should be ditched. It just means that the next time public officials brag about how many miles of bike infrastructure they’re responsible for, we need to call out these folks for shooting fish in a barrel and avoiding the important battles.

I have yet to hear anyone from T&ES bragging about total miles of bike infra.

[lordofthemark]

Construction on three notch trail in Maryland

http://www.thewashcycle.com/2015/05/progress-continues-on-three-notch-trail.html

sidewalk improvements at M and 12th SE, (which is part of the ART)

http://www.thewashcycle.com/2015/06/art-curb-ramp-rebuilt-and-sidewalk-added.html

[dplasters]

@lordofthemark 117630 wrote:

…That single lane would be wide enough to encourage speeding (this is a 25MPH zone) You still have a one single lane down the middle of the street, but now you have these striped lanes, that make drivers think their lane is narrower (it is not when there is no cyclists, but I am told they will still think it is) and so they will be less likely to exceed the speed limit.

My sense of the politics of this is that the neighborhood really wanted it – they do want traffic calming, and this is the cheapest practical way to achieve it……. I doubt anyone in the neighborhood will complain, because they all wanted this – and motorists from elsewhere will seldom see it, because they have no reason to go there.

I love this about neighborhoods. Everyone drives too fast in their own neighborhood. They know its a problem, yet can’t seem to solve it themselves.

[lordofthemark]

@dplasters 117658 wrote:

I love this about neighborhoods. Everyone drives too fast in their own neighborhood. They know its a problem, yet can’t seem to solve it themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons#Criticisms

[Terpfan]

@lordofthemark 117656 wrote:

I have yet to hear anyone from T&ES bragging about total miles of bike infra.

Seriously? They talk about it all the time. Eg, “With over 39 miles of on-street and off-street bike lanes, sharrows, and trails, using a bike to quickly, safely, and enjoyably get around has never been easier.”

http://alexandriava.gov/LocalMotion/info/default.aspx?id=11092

[lordofthemark]

@Terpfan 117660 wrote:

Seriously? They talk about it all the time. Eg, “With over 39 miles of on-street and off-street bike lanes, sharrows, and trails, using a bike to quickly, safely, and enjoyably get around has never been easier.”

http://alexandriava.gov/LocalMotion/info/default.aspx?id=11092

I guess I don’t read the website enough. At meetings I get the impression that T&ES considers the City to be behind Arlington, and in need of catching up. I guess they could not say that on a website. The website, I note, counts sharrows in the total – the above advisory bike lane is certainly no worse than that. Painting that in lieu of a sharrows does not increase the total miles more than a sharrows would.

[sjclaeys]

@chris_s 117649 wrote:

How about creating a new discussion topic about advisory bike lanes and letting this thread go back to Good News?

Yes, a thread was already started here: http://bikearlingtonforum.com/showthread.php?8804-Advisory-Bike-Lanes

[mstone]

@lordofthemark 117655 wrote:

I think the adjacent to the parking lane shoulder, even if it were legal, would be more confusing to the general public than this is.

You’ve really never biked on a road where people park on the shoulder? That’s not exactly a new thing.

[lordofthemark]

@mstone 117677 wrote:

You’ve really never biked on a road where people park on the shoulder? That’s not exactly a new thing.

A shoulder so wide as to include a lane of parking and the width of the advisory bike lane here, on a 20MPH street in a built up urban (sort of) neighborhood? I cannot think of any, but I am sure they exist somewhere.

https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-888

A report of the vehicle’s location shall be made to the nearest law-enforcement officer as soon as practicable, and the vehicle shall be moved from the roadway to the shoulder as soon as possible and removed from the shoulder without unnecessary delay.

I am not sure how the above applies to “urban shoulders”

[mstone]

@lordofthemark 117681 wrote:

A shoulder so wide as to include a lane of parking and the width of the advisory bike lane here, on a 20MPH street in a built up urban (sort of) neighborhood? I cannot think of any, but I am sure they exist somewhere.[/quote]

I’ve never seen one in an urban neighborhood either, but I thought we were inventing new treatments?

Quote:

I am not sure how the above applies to “urban shoulders”

Unless your car has broken down, it does not.

Anyway, I guess we’ll see what happens. I’m extremely skeptical that a 17 foot wide lane is going to have the effect of calming traffic, but I guess miracles do happen. My money is on people seeing that, then driving up the middle with the pedal on the floor. I’d love to see another section of the street striped with two 8 foot lanes and no bike lane (just a white fog line at the appropriate distance) and then a study to see which section people drive slower on. And maybe even a third section with a 12 foot center lane, two 6 foot bike lanes, and a 2 foot buffer between the bike lane and the parking.

[scoot]

All on that one road? Your sample would be too biased (and probably also too small) to draw any useful conclusions. Unless maybe if you somehow distributed multiple sections of each type randomly in very short bursts along the road. But then each section would only be about 200 feet max. Obstacle course!

[Steve O]

Move discussion over here
@sjclaeys 117668 wrote:

Yes, a thread was already started here: http://bikearlingtonforum.com/showthread.php?8804-Advisory-Bike-Lanes

[Author]

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