Fine for riding e-bikes on trails in DC?

[jnva]

@arlrider 97463 wrote:

My other issue with e-bike cyclists (note, I have not voiced this on other forums so I’m not one of the aforementioned trolls) is that they tend from my experience to be people who have just jumped into this and have very low levels of situational awareness and motor control when on the bike. They have skipped the steps that most of us take, where we build power, conditioning, and control (over years, typically), and instead have just lept right to ELITE speeds but without any of the experience that accompanies it. So in that respect I often find them dangerous – fast moving, uncontrolled objects.

FWIW, from my experience I have the opposite opinion. Most e-bikers I know are VERY experienced and have more control than the normal cyclist. I, for example, do not want to be the jerk on the ebike who kills someone. I’ve also put a lot of work and money into my bike so I can ride it everyday, hence I am very careful while riding. Take a close look at the typical cabby rider. Now those people are dangerous!

[baiskeli]

I kinda think of an e-bike the way I think of a motorized wheelchair vs. a hand-powered one. I don’t think there’s that much of a difference.

Now, if you put a really powerful motor on a bike, or a gas motor, you have a motorcycle, not a bike. Just like if you went overboard with a powered wheelchair:

[Crickey7]

I think the point stands. E-bikes like we see now, which are bikes with an electric motor that top out around 25 mph, won’t draw enforcement action.

More powerful, less bike-y designs would eventually prompt strict enforcement.

[jabberwocky]

@Raymo853 97479 wrote:

As primarily a mountain biker, I dread what physical and regulatory impact they will have on trails and trail access. I would never consider one now at 43 3/4, but maybe in 10 years I’ll want one so I can still climb some of the nutty things I can just barely climb now.

FWIW, I’ve seen a few articles lately about e-bike advocates and manufacturers pressuring IMBA to allow e-bikes on trails. See: http://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2014/08/25/electric-mountain-bikes-are-powerful-topic-imba-world-summit#.VEaflBb3d-M

I’m definitely very firmly against anything with a motor on MTB trails.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@jabberwocky 97502 wrote:

FWIW, I’ve seen a few articles lately about e-bike advocates and manufacturers pressuring IMBA to allow e-bikes on trails. See: http://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2014/08/25/electric-mountain-bikes-are-powerful-topic-imba-world-summit#.VEaflBb3d-M

I’m definitely very firmly against anything with a motor on MTB trails.

This is one insight that i think can be expanded. The industry is pushing this waaaay hard. As you may have noticed at all 3 major cycling tradeshows, e-bikes were everywhere. The reason? The aging boomer market share. Trek, Giant, and Specialized have already sold most of the boomers (and their kids!) MTBs or hybrids in the late 90’s/early 2000’s. At least 1/3 of them* bought Specialized Roubaixs between 2003 and today, and the last hold outs are going to be sold e-bikes soon. The industry needs the trails to be ready for the coming electrification of the cycling activity. Once they’re legal, the next hurdle will be charging stations at the bottom of the DH course (and at the intersection of doom!), and trailer-hitch mounted bike racks with charging ports.

* completely unscientific WAG

[peterw_diy]

@arlrider 97463 wrote:

The problem is, as with so many legal questions, where is the line?

http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter1/section46.2-100/

[peterw_diy]

@jabberwocky 97502 wrote:

I’m definitely very firmly against anything with a motor on MTB trails.

Why? Many e-bike motors are very quiet — we’re not talking about allowing mopeds on singletrack. If we allow all those wimps with suspension forks, why not e-assist, too? Seriously.

[arlrider]

@peterw_diy 97519 wrote:

Why? Many e-bike motors are very quiet — we’re not talking about allowing mopeds on singletrack. If we allow all those wimps with suspension forks, why not e-assist, too? Seriously.

It’s not about the noise, it’s about the high torque of the rear wheel tearing up trails. Have you ever seen what motocross bikes do to a trail surface?

[Harry Meatmotor]

@peterw_diy 97519 wrote:

Why? Many e-bike motors are very quiet — we’re not talking about allowing mopeds on singletrack. If we allow all those wimps with suspension forks, why not e-assist, too? Seriously.

It’s about fat people cheating up the hills.

[baiskeli]

@Harry Meatmotor 97522 wrote:

It’s about fat people cheating up the hills.

Arthritis starts at age 35!

It’s not just about cheating, it’s about people with bad joints or other problems, caused by age or otherwise, staying on bikes instead of driving around and getting fat. That’s a good thing. I’m feeling my knees now, and I can see myself wanting a little help in a few decades. I can also see people with disabilities not due to age using e-bikes to ride a bike when they otherwise wouldn’t be able to at all.

[baiskeli]

@arlrider 97521 wrote:

It’s not about the noise, it’s about the high torque of the rear wheel tearing up trails. Have you ever seen what motocross bikes do to a trail surface?

How much torque does an e-bike have though? And does anyone ride an e-bike on an unpaved trail anyway? Kinda defeats the purpose.

[AFHokie]

@dplasters 97478 wrote:

Reaching those speeds requires a lot of fitness, effort and experience

Or a significant downhill stretch.

[baiskeli]

Just to be clear, there are different kinds of “electric bikes.” There’s a bike you pedal but has a motor to assist, which in order to pedal has to be fairly light and therefore have not much power – in fact, it probably has less power under battery power than a strong cyclist could generate with his/her legs.

Then there’s the electric scooter, which is relatively big and powerful and 100% a motorized vehicle and shouldn’t be allowed on trails.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@baiskeli 97523 wrote:

Arthritis starts at age 35!

It’s not just about cheating, it’s about people with bad joints or other problems, caused by age or otherwise, staying on bikes instead of driving around and getting fat. That’s a good thing. I’m feeling my knees now, and I can see myself wanting a little help in a few decades. I can also see people with disabilities not due to age using e-bikes to ride a bike when they otherwise wouldn’t be able to at all.

Maybe I should’ve added to that one?

[jabberwocky]

@peterw_diy 97519 wrote:

Why? Many e-bike motors are very quiet — we’re not talking about allowing mopeds on singletrack. If we allow all those wimps with suspension forks, why not e-assist, too? Seriously.

Because motors are capable of delivering far more torque to the trail than a person alone can, and that can very easily tear up trail surface. Sustainability is at the top of the land manager list for desirability, and trails that get damaged or develop erosion issues frequently get shut down.

Suspension does not affect the power put down on the trail. In some respects its better IMO, because people on suspended bikes tend not to create ride arounds to minor trail stuff (trail widening = bad).

I get that its a hugely complicated issue for commuting and MUPs and such, and I can see both sides of the issue there. But for MTB trails, which largely represent huge investments of money, time and advocacy resources, I see no reason to change long-standing rules about motorized vehicles on the trail. They aren’t designed for it, won’t hold up to it and allowing it would undermine a lot of advocacy work. The MTB community has spent decades convincing land managers not to group us in with dirtbikers, ATVs and other motorized vehicles when it comes to land access.

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