Fine for riding e-bikes on trails in DC?

[Anonymous]

@dasgeh 98115 wrote:

But those are all endangered by any bike going fast. Ebikes (that meet the federal definition or something close to it — weight should also probably be a factor too) aren’t any more dangerous for them.

Yes, but those are not what I was talking about. I was specifically responding to Dismal’s question about overpowered ebikes and about why we might think differently about them on trails vs. roads. Overpowered I would assume indicating speeds and accelerations greater than the vast majority of people on purely human-powered bikes will be able to achieve or sustain. If an average cyclist is moving at, say, 12-15mph, an average jogger at 5-7mph, and an average walker at maybe 2mph, a 30mph power-assisted bike is going to have a greater speed differential compared to that 2mph walker on a MUP than compared to the average cyclist in a bike lane. What I’m saying is that when the 30mph and up capable ebikes become readily available and we have to decide where they’re allowed, there are reasons-legitimate ones- for considering on-street bike infrastructure (which is not designed for pedestrian use) differently from MUPs (which are). I was not saying anything about currently available ebikes. For that matter, I wasn’t saying anything about what the end result of these considerations ought to be, just that they are different.

[DismalScientist]

Actually, that wasn’t my question. Mstone said that he saw the solution as sufficient infrastructure so that e-bikers would choose not to ride on trail and, instead, ride on on-street, presumably, bike infrastructure. My basic question is why is it appropriate that e-bikes shouldn’t “terrorize” MUPs, but it is OK to “terrorize” on-street bicycle facilities. Wouldn’t this problem get worse as e-bikes get more powerful?

It seems that we make artificial distinctions (pedals/no pedals, electric/fuel powered, HP, max speed) between vehicles and treat them differently based on specific infrastructure (MUPs, sidewalks, bike lanes, normal road lanes). Since I have not experience particularly rude behavior by e-bikers, I don’t have strong opinions on any of this. So, I just sit back and enjoy everyone going at it.:rolleyes:

[lordofthemark]

@peterw_diy 98186 wrote:

How’s that? Am I supposed to lock my battery to the rack after dropping my kid off at school so that I can’t “cheat” solo? Tow a conventional bike to school and lock the entire ebike after dropoff?

Okay, didn’t think of that (that’s what comes from never having dropped a kid off at school by bike) I guess you could avoid MUPs on the non-kid part of your ride, but that could be a significant hardship. Or we could count on discretion by LE to not enforce against someone with a trailer whether there are kids in it or not – but then we are back to MStone’s approach of relying on discretion, and have not fully dealt with dasgeh’s desire to be able to be fully compliant with the law as written. I suppose that leaves getting a parent pass of some kind from the school. Not sure that’s a feasible approach.

[lordofthemark]

@DismalScientist 98204 wrote:

Actually, that wasn’t my question. Mstone said that he saw the solution as sufficient infrastructure so that e-bikers would choose not to ride on trail and, instead, ride on on-street, presumably, bike infrastructure. My basic question is why is it appropriate that e-bikes shouldn’t “terrorize” MUPs, but it is OK to “terrorize” on-street bicycle facilities. Wouldn’t this problem get worse as e-bikes get more powerful?

I would see the distinction as being that on street bike facilities have relatively slow cyclists (cough, cough) and the occasional daring runner. While MUPs get walkers, including really slow ones, really inattentive ones etc (I would mention child cyclists – you do see some in bike lanes, but usually much more focused and skilled than the beginners on the MUPs.) So the speed differential is less, and the skills of the users greater. But yeah, at some point, if ebikes are basically battery powered motorcycles with pedals, one would wonder why they belong anywhere that a conventional motorcycle does not belong.

[mstone]

@DismalScientist 98204 wrote:

Actually, that wasn’t my question. Mstone said that he saw the solution as sufficient infrastructure so that e-bikers would choose not to ride on trail and, instead, ride on on-street, presumably, bike infrastructure. My basic question is why is it appropriate that e-bikes shouldn’t “terrorize” MUPs, but it is OK to “terrorize” on-street bicycle facilities. Wouldn’t this problem get worse as e-bikes get more powerful?

I’m pretty sure I already responded to that. The basic difference is the lack of pedestrians and the expectation that on-street bike facilities are primarily transportation infrastructure, so there’s an expectation that people are moving and behaving in transportation-predictable ways. (As opposed to the trails which are an uncomfortable hybrid of transportation and recreational facilities, and the expectation is that people will just randomly stop, wander aimlessly, etc.) There’s also the factor that electric bikes are still going to be much more bikey than cars are (less weight differential, better visibility, need to pay attention, etc) so there’s still a qualitative difference between them and a black SUV. Also, your presumption that high-powered electric bikes should ride primarily in bike infrastructure is questionable; there are a lot of roads I don’t feel comfortable biking on (mostly because of the speed I can maintain up a hill from a stop) that I’d feel ok in riding with traffic if I were on a magic machine that could quickly get me up to 25 or 30 MPH. The real fight isn’t going to be over MUPs, IMO, it’s going to be over when you need to get a license & registration as a motorcycle.

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