VikingMariner
Forum Replies Created
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But how do you know that since we never built the bigger roads? We have essentially the same system capacity from decades ago in the DC metro area. As exhibit A I submit to you the Beltway, I-395 and I-66. Even Metrorail is jacked up in that we extended the lines without increasing capacity sufficiently (which requires more than longer trains) as you approach and reach the center of the rail system.
@mstone 184026 wrote:
I’ll stop quoting here because it makes even less sense the further you go. So you linked to something that wants me to pay $50 to even begin to guess at your point. No thanks. I’m not sure what you think is false, either. Here’s a legit source: https://cta.ornl.gov/data/tedbfiles/Spreadsheets/Table8_02.xls
Note that in 1950 there were .29 cars per capita, in 2015 there were .82 cars per capita. In 1950 there were .74 cars per employed person, in 2015 there were 1.78 cars per employed person. That is a huge difference. When my family lived in what’s now a car-choked inner suburb back in the 50’s their fairly typical middle class family of 4 (later 5 then 6) had 1 car which spent most of its time in the driveway while the breadwinner took the bus into the city. Population density at the time was higher than it is today, but vehicle density was much lower. Widening the arterials has made it much harder to walk (or bike) and has hammered property values along the biggest roads, but hasn’t “fixed” the traffic. Roads that used to have kids playing on them now have speed bumps due to the people trying to avoid the arterials. The only way to “fix” the traffic in your outdated paradigm is to tear down houses and put in more freeways. Or you can subscribe to wishful thinking like putting cars in tunnels, which is a fiscal fantasy.
Or, in the new paradigm, you shift people away from single occupancy vehicles and let them have an option to walk or bike the way they could 65 years ago.
Cherry picking perhaps? Let’s go back to 1986. Let’s also look at the overall trend. Then let’s consider that this dataset says nothing about demographic shifts out of the rust belt to places like Atlanta. Let’s Google that too.
Now you’re just making up facts (that are false) about our history and car ownership. Here are some facts: https://www.statista.com/statistics/199974/us-car-sales-since-1951/.
Electric autonomous cars operating in tunnels and away from cyclists is an old and tired idea? Personalized mass transit using that new infrastructure is a old idea? Actually the old idea is to stop investing in the infrastructure that brings all of our consumables and increasing everyone’s level of pain until metro dwellers are like rats in a cage, ready to feed on each other in a fit of rage–road rage to be precise. But I did like the way you turned my argument on me.
Reminded me of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5P5eQiKNQs
It was cute.
What an awesome movie. Ah social media–you gotta love it.On tunnels: https://electrek.co/2018/12/18/elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel-tesla-tracking-wheels/
Okay–I’ll stop. Never mind. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.
Re: “No place in the world has figure out a way to enable people in cars to go wherever they want, whenever they want, without getting stuck behind other people in cars.” That is not a true statement if we consider our history. In the mid-20th century our road and interstate system did improve traffic flow. Later we invested less in adapting that system to changes in population distribution.
Re: “Places that have tried to do so have made things much, much worse for people not in cars.” A very normative statement, but I can certainly agree. Half measures and delayed decisions on infrastructure improvement, combined with weak environmental laws and enforcement are probably larger factors. There are multiple intervening variables that probably did made things much, much worse for people not in cars and people in cars. To defeat this tribalism it should be important to consider the effects of certain decisions on everyone.
Re: “All we have now is a bit of reversion to the mean, because the amount of resources devoted to cars has gotten completely out of whack.” Heck might as well go all the way. The amount of resources devoted to our way of life vis-a-vis mass consumption and resource extraction in the extreme is measurably destroying the planet. It has been said that 75 percent of the generated green house pollutants is done by 100 companies.
It has also been said that there is a class element to this bike vs car tribalism, that is, today’s income distribution among young adults forces those good people to not be able to afford a home mortgage, a car loan, and they other mass consumption trappings that baby boomers “enjoy.” That in turn creates quite a bit of resentment toward the concept of cars even when the technology associated with cars in five years will be a net safety boon with autonomous vehicles, tunnels, and perhaps fewer vehicles as the concept of ownership changes to vehicle sharing.
I’m convinced that this tribalism does nothing for bicycle safety advocacy except work against safety. Quite frankly an article entitled “The Pedestrian Strikes Back” smacks of this tribal conflict approach straight out of the gate. The attitude that I see on this website too by a few good people also smacks of this notion that we are at war with cars and that we need to stick it to drivers. Have to confess that attitude is immature. The bike is not going to replace cars and trucks given the transportation needs of a post-modern society. Heck, my bikes were delivered by cars and trucks. And in this age of every right (speech, association, privacy, et al.) must be regulated or taken away in a piecemeal way, taking someone’s mobility which is an enabler of these rights to suit the personal desires of a narrow segment of interests is at best shortsighted.
We need to advocate for a transportation system that minimizes negative environmental and quality of life concerns for a wider group of people that just us cyclists. That would be a mature approach that is easy to sell. The first step may be to familiarize ourselves with the emerging technologies and approaches to transportation that just going for the default 20th century notion that bicycle safety is enhanced by a new bike lane protected by some vinyl reflective barriers that have magical powers to stop a drunk driver or a driver engaged in a jolly good game of Candy Crush. Honestly some of the cyclist issues being put forward right now are completely retarded–like taking away a parking space in Vienna for a bike rack. It’s as if people just want attention and just want to antagonize people who know nothing about cycling. The smarter approach would have been to stick to major issues of bike infrastructure like bridges on the W trail over streets like Cedar Lane, showing drivers how it also improves there safety. “Striking back” at drivers is just a shortsighted emotional approach.
Really tried of these articles trying to bait conflict between motorists and cyclists. Seems like the news media are desperate to get web clicks. Please don’t fall for it.
Anyway–I’m just stirring the pot a little (not trolling…not yet).
Not singling anyone out. Please take no offense. All of you seem like good people. This is just my opinion, which when combined with $4 will get you a cup of Starbucks (nasty coffee btw). My rant is best read if you play God Bless America in the background. Hahaha. Appreciate the posting.
I have my own take on the issues presented. Only presenting it was another way to look at the issues. Take it with a grain of salt if you like; that’s cool.The author presents ideas that I call tribalism–tribalism between pedestrians, cyclists, public transportation and vehicle owner/operators. The notion is that the other tribe(s) are responsible for the hardships that befall our tribe. I’m not buying it. I belong to all three tribes and have to say the notion that I must ally myself with just one tribe is ridiculous. We must also look beyond our own selfish needs and consider that not everyone cannot walk or ride a bike (or electric scooter) as the country’s population ages, albeit I did tie my 5-ft Christmas tree down nicely on my electric skateboard for a five mile ride to home. Awwww yeah. Hard as nails, son. :0)
Investment in infrastructure for all modes of transportation as been grossly inadequate for over 45 years and has not accounted for population shifts to and from certain metropolitan areas. Our infrastructure is rusting from the inside out. I know of several Third World countries with better infrastructure than DC. And as far as the internal combustion engine is concerned, not to worry. Its days are numbered. We are about to see electric vehicles from many new manufacturers very soon since the legacy auto makers refuse to adapt to the new environmental requirements in the world’s largest car market (China).
Just like the W&OD should be three or four times as wide so to should I-95 corridor from Boston to Richmond and I-66 (or perhaps have a Boring Company underground portion) to match the population growth in the DC metro area over the last few decades, for example. There’s no reason why there is not a bridge over Hunter Mill Rd or Cedar Ln on the W trail except a lack of willingness to spend cash 15 years ago. They cant even manage a flashing light to alert motorists, which shows a disregard for the safety of cyclist and motorist, with near collisions between cars threshold braking for cyclists on a trail hidden by embankments. The strategy of not building and expanding the infrastructure in the silly hope that it would result in other modes of transport being used while not investing in those other modes as well has been a complete failure that has negatively impacted the health and safety of millions of people. When it comes time to evacuate the area for natural or man-made causes, the tragedy of decades of inaction will be apparent.
The best advice is that everyone needs to think about how the entire transportation system should work (as a variable-sum game rather than the current zero-sum approach that several esteemed cycling advocates may have) and also recognizing how new technology may change how that system works. Tesla and the Boring Company are just two popular examples of how new technology could radically change the calculus of transportation for almost all modes of transportation–ped, bikes, trains, cars, and so on. It’s not enough to advocate for protected bike lanes that in some cases (like Wilson Blvd) actually do more harm that good by restricting the room to maneuver when a car door opens. I’ve been a cyclist for 50 years; I love it far more than the average person, but when I need an ambulance, I want it to be a fast electric truck (maybe autonomous and not prone to human error against a cyclist) on a system of well-maintained roads that flow, certainly not the current predicament of no-flow, lots of pollution, boiling tempers with zero quality of life, monster potholes, rusted out bridges, passing out drivers licenses for life with no future testing like it was Halloween candy, unreliable death-trap rail service every now & then, rich-people “hot” lanes at $40 for four miles run by for-profit companies, and so on. Freedom of movement is not a protected right but it certainly enables a lot of rights to associate, for example.
Frack tribalism and a continued emphasis on 20th century approaches to transportation (Metrorail as it stands was obsolete 25 years ago–it almost seems like someone deliberately wants it to fail as well) that is mostly cash starved and falling apart. Car drivers are not the problem; actually they are also frustrated with the system of roads, which sometimes causes them to act out and endanger others, including cyclists. People don’t speed for no reason; they are trying to get home to families. Well, okay; some people do, but that’s a rant I’ll save for another day. :0)
State and local government failed for decades and needs to be replaced.
Wooooo! That brings my old man rant to an end. I wrote this thing to perhaps provoke thought in a new direction that the usual rubric that all car owners suck. Perhaps things are not so black and white. Perhaps there are many shades of gray that may have real and dramatic effect for change. Thank you and God bless America.
In this case, I was not trolling but yeah I’m a troll on occasion.
I should like to point out that the gentleman/lady’s name (SolarBikeCar) pretty much sums up the reality of what at least one owner considers his own electric vehicle (EV) to be: a solar-powered bike and car, notwithstanding any protests to the contrary.This is what I said here and on YouTube and not much more:
– Saw an EV tricycle (not a bicycle) on the W.
– Is that legal? Asking for a friend (laughing inside still).
– Top seed is up to 35 mph.
– Thought it was a car at first (possibly a drunk driver as in the past).
– Whatever, man. At least I’m on my bike.I do like the EV. It’s pretty cool. I hear UPS and others may use a modified version for package delivery. Love EVs. Love Tesla.
The manufacturer did say during an interview on YouTube that the vehicle’s top speed is limited to 35 mph with the assist of the electric motor. I deleted and closed off comments on my YouTube channel because I didn’t want any immature and misleading comments on it for which social media is infamous; you can keep those comments right here on this thread. There was also the assumption in those two EV posters on my Youtube channel that I opposed them and their vehicles. I actually have no opinion (yet?). There was also a budding legal discussion over what constitutes a “motorized” vehicle. I am not an attorney and I did not want that amateur hour stuff on my YouTube channel. It’s very clear the vehicles have electric motors powered with solar cells and a battery, not squirrels or husky dogs, and that the tricycle (which is a vehicle) is about the size of a mini-Cooper. Ergo, it’s a motorized vehicle from a common sense standpoint.
Over the course of a few days, I thought about it more and I do have a minor concern about the size of the vehicle when the trail is crowded; it does take up a whole lane when at 20 mph (faster something that wide moves the more space I want to give it). Eh, am I gonna lose my $hit over that concern? Nope. Almost zero fuc*s given. Am I gonna eat popcorn while some of the EV owners overreact? Sure. Why not? Was my video awesome (music too)? Yep. Will I be posting more video tales from the tarmac? Yep. Every time I go out I see some really strange stuff and that’s why I will have two cameras on for every ride from now on. For those people, who like to “act a fool” while I ride (cars, buses, trains, cyclists, pedestrians, Kamikaze squirrels, Cylons), I’ll be waiting for yah. Do your thing. Hooyah. 😎
