SolarBikeCar
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SolarBikeCar
ParticipantMy plain reading of the law is that legislators want cyclists to stay right and let faster traffic pass. If the cyclist is passing stopped or slow traffic he should pass on the right using the shoulder if needed. If the cyclist is faster than moving traffic they should pass on the left if there are multi-lanes and the passing lane is free of other vehicles. What is not permitted is for cyclists to slip down between two lanes of traffic going in the same direction by riding the dashed yellow line (or worse the center line between lanes going in opposite directions.) Cars don’t expect that and it is dangerous. The exception is when the right lane is a turn lane. It is dangerous for a cyclists to stay right only to get to the intersection and then need to suddenly switch lanes to be able to travel straight through. So if a cyclist is coming to an intersection with traffic waiting to turn right and another lane to go straight, a cyclist is permitted to drive between those two lines passing between traffic in the process. The VDOT cycling pamphlet explains this with pictures.
SolarBikeCar
Participant@dplasters 128467 wrote:
– side gripe – so they can lane split cyclists, but cyclist can’t lane split cars
My complaint is people who quote the law and then interpret it incorrectly because they skip/ignore key words like “motor vehicle”. A bicycle is not a motor vehicle.
SolarBikeCar
Participant@kcb203 128301 wrote:
Anytime you’re exceeding 25 mph you’re breaking the law:QUOTE]
No. At speeds above 25 I convert into a moped under Virginia law. I am not permitted on a MUP at that speed, true, but I can ride on roads (which is the only place I’ve been able to achieve speeds above 25 anyway).
SolarBikeCar
ParticipantVirginia Code (§ 46.2-100. Definitions.)
“Shared-use path” means a bikeway … [implicit in describing it as a bikeway is that it accommodates all bicycles including electric-assist ones]
“Shared-use paths may also be used [in addition to bicycles] by pedestrians, skaters, users of wheel chairs or wheel chair conveyances, joggers, and other nonmotorized users.”“Nonmotorized users” does not apply to or describe bicycles users, skaters or wheel chairs. It only applies to users that were not already enumerated. Therefore motorized skateboards, wheelchairs and bicycles are permitted on shared-use paths.
Note that this law does not permit mopeds or Segways as they are motorized and are not otherwise enumerated as legal for a shared-use path.
Continuing on through 46.2-100 definitions, this section is of note: “Except as otherwise provided, for the purposes of this title, any device herein defined as a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, electric power-assisted bicycle, or moped shall be deemed not to be a motor vehicle.”
Those that want to creatively interpret Virginia’s definition of an electric-assist bicycle as requiring constant pedal action should know that that interpretation is prohibited by federal law as it nullifies the federal definition of an electric-assist bicycle.
“[Federal regulations] shall supersede any State law or requirement with respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent that such State law or requirement is more stringent than the Federal law or requirements.” [HR 727]
SolarBikeCar
Participant@kcb203 128010 wrote:
..When you’re operating solely on electrical power, there is nothing “reducing” your pedal effort. Your pedal effort is eliminated.
I am never operating the elf solely on electrical power. If I wanted an electric car I would have bought one. The whole purpose is to get exercise and you can’t get exercise by not turning the pedals. You’d have to prove the pedals are a sham to support an argument that it isn’t electric-assist.
SolarBikeCar
Participant@dkel 128003 wrote:
So what are you looking for here? Approval?
No. I’m here to correct the falsehoods and to prevent attempts to encourage vigilante actions against me. I’m also hoping to foster some understanding and more civil behavior from that one cyclist who screams obscenities at me as we pass.
SolarBikeCar
Participant@lordofthemark 127998 wrote:
At what speed can it be ridden on flat terrain?
There are many factors like battery state of charge, tire pressure, etc, that would affect an actual test, but a reasonable estimate from my experience is 19 mph with motor only and 22mph with serious pedal input in addition to motor. Pedal only/no motor is 10 mph.
SolarBikeCar
Participant@Raymo853 127996 wrote:
.. As people have shown, effective arguments can be made that it is not an electric assisted bicycle nor allowed on the WOD as according to other VA statutes.
I give citations to support my legal arguments and technical specs from testing devices to support my facts. Others here have just made up stuff.
SolarBikeCar
ParticipantIn summary…
The ELF as modified remains an electric-assist bicycle by federal definition because as a vehicle it can self-propel no faster than 20 mph with a 170# rider on level terrain.
The ELF as modified remains an electric-assist bicycle by Virginia law since in pedal and electric assist mode it cannot exceed 25mph. (My stock ELF could not exceed 20 mph.)
The ELF can be instantly converted into a regular bicycle by not using the electric assist and driven at speeds in excess of 30mph given sufficient gravity assist. (My stock ELF was limited to 28mph)
The ELF is wide but it fits on a 10 ft trail and can pass another similarly sized vehicle while maintaining 3ft of clearance.
The paved portion of W&OD is 10 ft wide with 4ft of adjacent walking paths between Reston and Vienna, the portion of the W&OD in which the ELF has been ridden.
Virginia Statutes give electric-assist bicycles riders a “by-right” permission to use multi-use paths that cannot be taken away by local jurisdictions.
SolarBikeCar
Participant@dkel 127947 wrote:
§ 46.2-100. Definitions.
“Shared-use path” means a bikeway that is physically separated from motorized vehicular traffic by an open space or barrier and is located either within the highway right-of-way or within a separate right-of-way. Shared-use paths may also be used by pedestrians, skaters, users of wheel chairs or wheel chair conveyances, joggers, and other nonmotorized users.VA law. Not a park rule.
I see your definition and raise you one regulation. Note that taking the below section in context “nonmotorized” means not a motor vehicles and Virginia code explicitly declares that electric assist bicycles are not to be considered motor vehicles for regulatory purposes.
§ 46.2-904. Use of roller skates and skateboards on sidewalks and shared-use paths; operation of bicycles, motorized skateboards or foot-scooters, motor-driven cycles, electric power-assisted bicycles, and electric personal assistive mobility devices on sidewalks and crosswalks and shared-use paths; local ordinances.
…A person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, motorized skateboard or foot-scooter, motor-driven cycle, or an electric power-assisted bicycle on a sidewalk, shared-use path, or across a roadway on a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties of a pedestrian under the same circumstances.
SolarBikeCar
Participant@dkel 127942 wrote:
E-bikes have a definite speed limit in Virginia: “§ 46.2-908.1. Electric personal assistive mobility devices, electrically powered toy vehicles, and electric power-assisted bicycles. No person shall at any time or at any location drive an electric personal assistive mobility device, or an electric power-assisted bicycle faster than twenty-five miles per hour.” I’m sure @SolarBikeCar has a well-reasoned explanation as to how that doesn’t apply to him.
The elf cannot go faster than 25mph even downhill with the wind with motor engaged. The motor acts as a brake (a generator of sorts) when the RPM exceeds the upper limit. The elf can be operated without motor assist and as a non-motorized bicycle on a downhill, however, it can exceed 25mph, but not by much. Around 30 mph is the upper limit on roads that are steep enough to allow gravity assist and furious pedaling. As I’ve explained before the W&OD does not have steep enough grades to allow free-pedaling to this speed. I believe the law applies to me and I comply with it.
SolarBikeCar
Participant@mstone 127920 wrote:
Park authorities act (Code of VA § 15.2-5700 through 5714) gives park authorities the right to regulate use of land and facilities, and to enact rules and regulations concerning the use of properties.
…subject to the requirement that a Park Authority can not create rules that conflict with the Commonwealth (see § 15.2-5704)
SolarBikeCar
ParticipantThe distinction between drive and ride is really tortured and not helpful to the discussion.
e.g: I ride a Harley.
I drive to the basket for a 2-pointer.
I drive cattle.
I ride a steer.Before purchasing an ELF I did my homework. I studied the laws regulating vehicles on roads and multi-use paths and the rules for the W&OD. I won’t dispute that motorized vehicles from Moped on up are prohibited from use of the path. However, Virginia Code permits electric assist bicycles on any public multi use path that permits bicycles with the exception of scenic wilderness paths. Since Virginia is a Dillon state, local jurisdictions including park services are not permitted to enact and enforce rules not explicitly delegated by the legislature.
My office colleague made the astute observation that the conflict seems to be less with the parameters of the vehicle and more with aesthetics: the damn thing looks too much like a car. He facetiously suggested that I put a tail on the back of the elf and a horse head on top and “gallop” down the trail and then everyone could be happy again.
I get it that after fighting for space on roads and feeling vulnerable a cyclist finds solace and a feeling of empowerment as top-dog on a bike trail. That feeling evaporates a bit when rubbing shoulders with what looks kinda like an automobile. Likewise, many drivers feel that after giving up space
on roads for cyclists that they are uncomfortably vulnerable on sidewalks when required to share that space with bicycles. We all wish we had more space that was exclusively ours.I have modified my driving style over time to address concerns about width and to honor the 3ft rule. I now ride the left tire 16″ to the right of the yellow line instead of on it. That places the right tire on the edge of a 5 foot path. Any wobble is less likely to cross the line but more likely to slip off the asphalt and onto the adjacent trail. I initially feared slipping off the edge would be troublesome but it turned out not to be a problem at all. I fold in the left mirror and use the right mirror and a smaller blind spot mirror to keep an eye on what is behind me.
If I encounter trail users who don’t give me 16″ of buffer on their side of the yellow line (note the math does work out for two elfs to pass and obey the 3 ft rule on regulation sized paths) I take advantage of the gravel path that bike and pedestrians use on the right side to move the Elf an additional 18″ to the right to maintain a 3ft buffer.
Initially I used longer stretches of the W&OD but as I developed alternative routes to shorten my ride, I have eliminated some segments and hope to eliminate more. This discussion may simply prepare everyone for the next ELF that wonders onto the trail.
SolarBikeCar
Participant@Emm 127816 wrote:
[Horses are] also easier to see around than the ELF car.
An elf has a transparent back and front window. From behind one can see through the vehicle to the path in front.
SolarBikeCar
Participant@LeprosyStudyGroup 127818 wrote:
Since you’ve demonstrated a willingness to set up straw man arguments.
Please don’t project. I am simply asking questions to understand the nature of the objection. If it is something that I can change I will. I can reduce the width 6″ by folding in the side mirrors, for example. I can change riding style if it makes people uncomfortable. But if your objections are irrational and you want a rule applied only to the elf but not to any other user of the W&OD with similar characteristics (weight, height, speed, width) then the feedback isn’t going to get much respect.
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