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@josh 187899 wrote:

That’s an interesting teal.

OK … having done both detours, I’d definitely recommend the posted one rather than bentbike’s. The hill on it is worse than Manchester street on the posted detour. Going a block further on the posted route, the next hill is a lot less steep. Riding from Vienna to DC, I get enough hills, so I don’t seek out more.

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@Tania 187884 wrote:

It was closed-closed this am. The hill on Manchester looks WAY worse than it is. Once I got to the top I knew to turn left but then I wasn’t sure where to go (no signs). It also wasn’t immediately clear that I needed to turn onto the sidewalk there at Patrick Henry rather than cross the street (the other somewhat-lost cyclist with me crossed) – I had to stop and look around to figure out what I should do. Once I popped back out to the W&OD a helpful (?) pedestrian yelled at me to cut through the picnic area/park rather than heading back west to get to the custis entrance. Ground was softer than I liked, sorry about the tracks I left.

I got to enjoy the detour as well. I agree that the Manchester hill wasn’t that bad. It’s pretty short. But I’m trying the other way on the way home. It sure has been a year of detour activity on the bike trails this year. The 14-th street bridge ramp, grand slalom repair in Arlington, and now this. I do like the pattern they have of blocking the trail off with signs, and then commencing work a 7-10 days later. Over the years, I’ve watched the creek carve quite a bit of real estate out of that corner. Sometimes the path even floods. I guess it needs to be done.

So if this is the first official day (and I didn’t see anything going on), it’s likely closed until the end of March? Wish they’d done it in December when I was on vacation.

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@lordofthemark 187359 wrote:

I have to point out that most advocates (myself included) have emphasized that the the MUTs ARE commuter routes. That is one justification for getting more MUT’s and widening those that exist. It’s a reason that some localities have agreed to remove snow from them in winter. In many cases (like the W&OD) there aren’t any other relatively low stress routes.

I certainly want more low stress routes that are not MUTs for a variety of reasons. I would like to see options for faster riders, whether recreational or commuters, around the parts of MUTs with lots of peds and slow riders (I personally like to use Eads to avoid the crowded part of the MVT between 4MRT and the 14th street bridge, though I am not a particularly fast rider)

But a big help in getting more in street bike routes (whether PBLs, conventional bike lanes, or slower streets) would be more people who ride, period. Including more ebikers, who may need trail access to decide to start riding.

I’d agree that MUTS are commuter routes during certain parts of the day (I wish Fairfax Country would do snow removal like Arlington does). I’ve been a bike commuter in DC (VA into DC) for 26 years. Back when I started doing it in the early 1990’s, bike commuting was relatively unheard of. The paths were empty in the winter. The explosion of ebikes on the W&OD coincided with the Metro surge the summer before last. We’ve got a really nice resource in the bike paths we have around here, but I agree that we may be outgrowing what we have. And it is more than just a commuter path. Ride through Falls Church, Vienna or Reston on a weekday afternoon and the path is full of runners, dog walkers, kids, etc. We don’t own it.

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@dasgeh 187358 wrote:

The policy discussion is about whether to allow ebikes on the trail, and if so, what the assist should be limited to. Bikes can go as fast as the user gets them going.

As someone here already mentioned, speed is a relative thing. There’s sections of the trail where I can hit 35 mph. I could probably get going that fast down the Rosslyn hill, except that there’s pedestrians walking on it, cars crossing, and other bikes going a variety of speeds, so I don’t. Is 20 mph “fast”? I’d say yes when I’m climbing up the Rosslyn hill and someone on an ebike passes we doing 20 mph. It happens all the time. And when half the bikes on the trail are ebikes, my slow ass is going to be a problem for them. I’m sure, like most people in this area, they’ll be polite and slow down until we get to a place where its safe to pass.

I like what someone said about banning them — it won’t be enforced, but if someone on an ebike causes and accident there will be consequences.

There is very spotty enforcement on our bike paths:

1. The Falls Church police post an officer (looks like a very junior officer) near a stop sign close to Route 7. He hides behind the bushes. When someone runs the stop sign, he stops them and gives them a warning. I find that motorists and cyclists in that area have a pretty good system. I approach the sign, slow down, the car on the street stops, I make eye contact, I cross the street. There’s really no need to come to a complete stop, but try explaining that to a cop. Stop means stop. They do this once or twice a year in the Spring.
2. Near East Falls Church there’s a section of the trail that goes through a neighborhood. . Halfway down the hill, there’s a stop sign. If there’s no cars coming the other way, everyone pretty much blows through it. A couple days each Spring, Arlington county cops in an unmarked car flag down offenders and give them a warning. I know one guy who actually got a ticket. I got warned once and to this day, I at least slow down going through that stop sign.
3. Several years ago, Arlington County posted a cop at the Rosslyn intersection who stopped every cyclist wearing headphones and told them that doing so is illegal in Arlington County.
4. I hear that cops set up a speed trap on the Capitol Crescent trail every year and actually use a radar gun to catch people exceeding the 15 mph speed limit.

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I couldn’t make the meeting, but I wrote in opposing ebikes. I commute from Vienna to DC and see increasing numbers of these things. Some observations:

1. There are very few cyclists who can keep up with a person on an ebike. Especially up a hill or into a head wind. Yeah, maybe a cat 2 racer, but that’s not most of us.
2. Most ebike riders I see are not old, infirm, out of shape, etc. Most of them seem to be quite a bit younger than I am (I’m 56). I have seen scant evidence to back up the argument that they help get people out on the trail that physically can’t otherwise.
3. A lot of people I see riding ebikes aren’t very good cyclists. Often when they’re passing several cyclists at a time they seem pretty unsure of what to do when someone is coming the other way. They pass on blind corners a lot.
4. Is it a good idea to have people with questionable riding skills who have the ability to easily travel at 20 mph mixing with the rest us on an 8′ wide strip of asphalt?
5. The situation is tolerable now. I get passed by several ebikes each way (less in the winter) when I commute. I have never passed anyone on an ebike. I ride 4000-5000 miles a year. Five years ago, an ebike was something I saw once a week (actually it was usually an electric wheel). What’s it going to be like five years from now? Everyplace I drive to around here is traffic and some SUV tailgating me because I’m not driving fast enough to get to the next red stoplight. Can’t our bike trails be a place where humans get around on human power?
6. Any performance based rule is meaningless (e.g., to put a ceiling on watts, max speed, etc.). No one will enforce it. In fact, even an outright ban won’t get enforced. I think these things are here to stay.

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@lordofthemark 182369 wrote:

My understanding is that NPS plans to redo all the signs on the bridge within – not sure, the next decade I guess – and when that is done, the post in the trail will be moved. Not sooner.

Which will, no doubt, involve repaving the ramp …

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@huskerdont 182620 wrote:

I am sympathetic to the gut response here, but I feel like you’ve gotta let people do what they are gonna do. So many cyclists seem to think that everyone has to ride the exact same way they do, and my initial reflex can be that way at times, but then I relax and let it ride. Sure, be proud of what you do, but there’s nothing to be gained by belittling others for making a different choice.

I’m fine with people riding electric bikes. I think it’s lazy, but that’s opinion and I’m entitled to one. What bothers me is that electric bikes put a lot of speed into the hands of a lot of inexperienced bike riders. They should be banned on the MUT. I’ve been commuting from Vienna to DC for over two decades. It’s gone from maybe seeing one or two of them a week to getting passed by them several times each way every day. Yesterday, a guy on an ebike passed me and then zipped by the guy 20 yards in front of me around a blind corner. Or the guy that passed me going the other direction on the 14-th street bridge two days ago. He was literally going 25-30 mph. What would have happened if that idiot had hit some debris? I see people on these bikes doing really dumbass stuff pretty often. Do people on ‘real bikes’ do dumbass stuff? Yes they do, but I see it on a higher frequency with people riding ebikes. Having the ability to ride faster than anyone else on the bike path is a dangerous thing in the hands of relatively inexperienced bike riders. The bike path is not very wide and sometimes heavily used, so anything that minimizes people doing dumbass stuff is an improvement. And in my opinion, that would include banning ebikes, After all, they’re motorized vehicles. I dread the day — and its coming — when half the bikes on the bike trail are going to have motors on them. And what’s it going to be like when I’m riding up the Rosslyn hill and there’s all these impatient folks behind me on ebikes that are pissed that I can’t go up that hill at 20 mph? The situation right now is tolerable, but at the rate this is going, it won’t be five years from now.

Wanna ride an ebike? More power to you, but ride it with the rest of the motorized vehicles, not on the bike path. If you really need a motor on your bike, maybe the Metro is a good commuting option. The bike path was never intended to be used by motorized vehicles.

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@KWL 182613 wrote:

Nice. Is that a 58cm? Asking for a friend.

It’s a 56 c-c. Corsa 01. I think these are the nicest frames that came out of Merckx’s factory. Made in 1996 with Deda zero uno tubes. I have another one that’s built up, but I couldn’t resist buying this frame. The one I have has been repainted and has a carbon fork. This one has original paint and a chrome fork. I’ve got an 11-speed Athena group to put on it. The ride equality of this frame is incredible and it’s as light as my titanium bike.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18563[/ATTACH]

I couldn’t resist this Colnago a few years ago. It’s beautiful and soon no one will be making stuff like this. I do think that the Merckx is the nicer riding frame.

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[ATTACH=CONFIG]18565[/ATTACH]

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@TwoWheelsDC 182609 wrote:

It’s yours. Better to be a “real cyclist who drives almost everywhere” than a “car-free e-biking shithead” amirite

Hey, I commuted 5200 miles last year. How many tons of coal did you go through? amiwrong?

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Winter project direct from Belgium

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Before kids, my wife and I did a few vacations that involved shipping out bikes overseas on a plane as luggage. Back then, it was free if it was one of your two checked bags. No idea what the fee is now. On domestic flights, it’s outrageous. I’ve got a couple Performance hard cases sitting in my tool shed gathering dust. You’re welcome to borrow one. They’re hard plastic, but have no wheels. They’re not the real fancy ones like trico, but they work. There are latches on the side for locks, but I’d use carbiners instead because TSA may want to open it up and examine the contents.

Look on ebay and you’ll find some used Performance cases.

The packing/unpacking process is pretty easy

1. Remove the wheels
2. Remove the skewers and cassette from the wheels and store in a bag
3. Remove the saddle/seat post
4. Remove the pedals
5. Brace the front and rear drop outs — you can make braces yourself, or get them from a bike shop. Don’t skip this step.
6. Loosen the headset and turn the bars 90 degrees.
7. If you’re worried about your paint job, you can buy plumbing pipe insulation — basically 4′ round foam tubes an zip tie them to the frame tubes.

If this sounds like a PITA to you, your local bike shop would probably box it up for you for a fee and show you how to unpack it. Or you could just ship the thing to where you’re going. Know anyone down there?

One year we did Ride the Rockies. Hundreds of people were wandering around the Denver airport. I think we were the only ones with hard cases. Everyone else seemed to be getting along just fine with cardboard boxes.

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@dkel 180564 wrote:

(Snort!)

Indeed! There’s more of those stupid things on the trail than ever. If they’re not allowed, no one is enforcing it. And if they do, expect to hear some noise, because the people who ride them are too lazy to ride a real bike. My local bike shop (Spokes) probably sells more ebikes than real bikes. And they must make a good profit doing it, because they push them hard. Kind of a sad state of affairs when the most up and coming desirable feature on a bicycle is an electric motor.

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Where do you plan on putting your three other bikes?

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I think you guys should just avoid Memorial Bridge. I rode across Roosevelt for years. It is a bit narrow and the barrier is a bit low, but it’s doable. The job I have now is closer to the Mall so I go across 14-th Street Bridge. The construction (stairs) project is over this week. It’s a wide bridge with a high barrier. You can easily access Ohio Drive and head back towards Memorial Bridge are once you cross it if that’s where you need to go. I went across Memorial for the first time earlier this month and found it to be a PITA crossing the Parkway and dodging all the construction. Now it’s even worse. Neither Roosevelt or 14-th Street bridges involve crossing the Parkway or dodging traffic.

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The 14-th street bridge/stairs were open last night (10/9) and this morning (10/10).

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