[jnva]

@mstone 19259 wrote:

No, that’s your whole point. Others obviously have different points.

Forum: Commuters
Thinking about riding to work? Or maybe doing some errands around town? Figure out what to wear and how to carry your belongings.

Isn’t that what this means? Using a bike instead of a car to commute?

[jnva]

@JeffB 19257 wrote:

KLizotte (post #81) and jabberwocky (post #87) pretty much sum up my thinking on the use of e-bikes on the trails. [/quote]

Mark blacknell sums it up for me in post 11

Quote:

As for the idea that we should allow legal e-bikes on the trails:
A) They are already too many people going too fast on the trails as it is. We don’t need more.

Yes, we do need more if we are going to get people out of cars. Isn’t that the whole point. Another common theme I hear from this forum – “keep them off OUR trails.”. Yes, klizotte I read your post before you eited it and that’s pretty much what you wrote.

Quote:

Once some people begin riding legal e-bikes on the trails others will want to join in. And they may not be so discriminating in their choice of bike.

Oh, you mean like painting them pink? again, trails don’t belong to only the people on this forum.

Quote:

C) Asking the authorities to referee between legal and not legal e-bikes is a fool’s errand.

Who’s asking for that? You can’t purchase an illegal ebike.

Quote:

D) I use the CCT which in DC is monitored by the US Park Police. Given the state of their relations with the pedi-cabs on the mall last thing I want is for them to be spending time on the CCT.

Why? Are you doing something illegal on the CCT?

Quote:

About 2 years ago I encountered a fellow using an e-bike on the trail. The first time I was on the long straightaway by Fletcher’s boathouse about to pass another rider. I saw a skinny rider coming towards me sitting upright and pedaling slowly on what I took to be a mountain bike. He was some distance away and my quick read was that he was of absolutely no concern.

How wrong I was! No sooner had I begun to pull around the other rider when I noticed that the oncoming rider had closed the distance between us at an astonishing speed. I barely had enough time to throw my bike back to my side of the lane before he zipped by. I estimate he probably was going about 30 MPH.

I observed him a couple of other times as well over the next few weeks. Always going at the same very high speed. Apparently his behavior raised a number of complaints and the CCT organization put up a posting asking people to report their encounters with him.

Shortly after that I was riding home and saw a Montgomery Park Policeman (on the MD CCT portion) sitting on a motorcycle hidden in the bushes. I don’t know if they ever got him but I haven’t seen him since!

Yep, I know about that and he doesn’t ride there anymore. There are lots of bad behavior on the trial that I wish people would stop doing too.

My point – there is a transportation problem in this area that I believe can be somewhat solved by ebikes. I have a 35 mile round trip commute. I am one less car on the road not burning 2 gallons of gas every time I go to work. Of course charging batteries uses some fossil fuels, but here’s the important point – none of it (or less than 1%) comes from foreign oil. this is important! If more people start using the trails we can demand, and get better infrastructure. Please stop trying to persuade people to not bike to work, which is what I am hearing here.

[jnva]

@brendan 19254 wrote:

Note also, just like cyclist wattage output, the wattage required for a particular speed is approximately proportional to the *square* of the velocity (in the atmosphere). Slower is better if you want to maximize your distance.

Brendan

Excellent point. This is also why you just aren’t going to be seeing a lot of ebikes zipping around Arlington trails. It turns out that the amount of power needed to go above approximately 20mph is just not worth the extra weight in batteries you need to carry, not to mention all of the frame modifications needed to carry that weight. Motorcycles make more sense if you want speed.

[jnva]

@mstone 19250 wrote:

And the incentive to do so is low due to the limitations of battery technology. That’s not a voltage issue, it’s a question of how much capacity is practical to haul around on a bike.

Exactly. Voltage=top speed while capacity (watt-hours) = distance. High voltage not so easy to add, so high speed ebikes not really practical. Neither is adding capacity because of the weight of current battery technology.

[jnva]

@mstone 19244 wrote:

The limiting factor, IMO, isn’t law–it’s battery technology. Batteries have been improving very slowly, but will almost certainly continue to improve and make ever faster bikes practical.

Not exactly. Most ebikes use dc brushless motors that require a controller to provide voltage at a certain rate to the motor (very basic description of how it actually works). Manufacturers are not allowed to sell ebikes regardless of the battery voltage that can propell a bike more than 20mph. Modding the controller is not as easy as some people on this forum think, by the way.

[jnva]

@Nuke 19180 wrote:

I didn’t know what the objection to e-bikes until yesterday when I was on a MUP in the Iwo Jima park. I was slowing going up a hill on a path that is not that wide. With no warning, an e-bike passes me going rather fast. Scare the cr@p out of me since I would not expect to passed at that speed going up a hill. Sure, a warning would have helped but if I heard a bell, I still woulded be expecting a bike at that speed. Now maybe a horn would be better but then that’s when e-bikes really are more like mopeds.

What pisses me off the most about was that there was no good reason to be on the trail. The roads around there would have gotten the guy to the same place.

It’s not the ebike you should be pissed off about, it’s the person riding it. I can’t tell you how many times that’s happened to me by roadies passing me on the trails. If your going to go fast, I agree that the mup is not the place to do it.

[jnva]

@KLizotte 19123 wrote:

From what I’m reading I don’t think most people are advocating banning you or the situation you describe; rather, people are concerned that the genie is out of the bottle and that e-bikes will suddenly become a real menace because they have suddenly become fast, light and cheap. Kinda like the scourage that cell phones have become with everyone yabbering away on them wherever they feel like it.

I’m perfectly fine with the current crop of e-bikes because they are heavy and reasonably slow; I have even tried one (it was fun though I found it disturbingly quick to accelerate). I just fear that manufacturers will start producing beasts (like SUVs) because they can make a buck.

I completely understand your fear but also you should know it’s a situation that has not, and in my opinion will not happen. Manufacturers are already producing beasts that can go super fast – they are called motorcycles! Zero makes one, and I don’t recall the others off the top of my head. Low speed electric is for commuters like me who want a car replacement without the difficulty owning a motorcycle or riding a bike. Anyway, it fits my needs perfectly and I don’t see any need to be afraid of them.

[jnva]

@dasgeh 19121 wrote:

The only people I know with ebikes are like me — committed cyclists who started on regular bikes…

Exactly my situation. I don’t have a shower at work and even if there were one, I don’t want to take a shower at work. I want to get to work, do my job and then go home. I don’t want to change either- I bike in my work clothes. Ebike allows me to do this. And I’m not out of shape or have any medical reason to not ride non ebike. I run marathons and bike races, just getting to work on the ebike is so easy and fun I find it amazing more people don’t do it, and even more amazed it’s in some way illegal to do so on local trails. Things need to change….

[jnva]

@mstone 19116 wrote:

Except, 20 is generally too fast for the close-in MUPs when other users are out and about–and the fact that anyone can jump on and do it in less than a week is exactly the problem…

Part of mastering the top speed is knowing when to slow down. I stand by my statement that it can be learned in a week. I agree with you that 20 is too fast in most situations on the mup.

[jnva]

@jabberwocky 19112 wrote:

I think the main issue is thats really hard to actually check that an e-bike is in compliance with the law. Fast riders are already a problem on MUPs; its understandable that many are leery of allowing a class of vehicle with even higher potential speed on crowded trails. A fit roadie can go quite fast, sure, but becoming a fit roadie takes a lot of riding and experience. Its different when an inexperienced rider can hop on and instantly be cruising at 20+mph…

Its a super young industry and the tech is constantly evolving. My main concern is that e-bikes are almost certainly going to get faster and less expensive as time goes on. Its one thing to allow bikes today (they are uncommon and not much faster than most experienced roadies), but laws change slowly and the tech doesn’t…

I joined this forum and started posting because I thought I could bring some sense to all of the posts I read about how dangerous ebikes are, and how they are going to take over the trails and ruin it for everyone. The common thing I am hearing is that on an ebike you don’t have to work hard to go fast. But that’s exactly the point and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. As a mode of transportation to get to work, it works great for me. I am certainly not trying to take over the mup and cause problems.

As far as experience and safe handling of an ebike going 20mph, this can be mastered in a week or so. It’s not that difficult.

[jnva]

@dasgeh 19106 wrote:

Personally, I’d be fine with leaving the ban from MUPs for other bikes-with-motors that aren’t ebikes..

me too, but as it is now even a bike that meets the legal definition of low speed electric assist bicycle is banned from the trails. I agree that speed is a problem on the trails and no way do I advocate high speed ebikes being allowed.

[jnva]

@KLizotte 19099 wrote:

Well, I see the problem of faster bikes as an issue since we already that problem happening today with the fast road bikes. Fifty years ago the bikes were heavy and slow and pedestrians did not feel threatened. Contrast that with the riders of today who can easily ride from 15 to 30 miles an hour on a trail; this poses real danger to other trail users. Yes, most riders are careful and conscientious but you’ll always have a few bad apples that ruin it for everyone. I’m concerned that ebike speeds will soon start surpassing what people can do on traditional road bikes.

On a mup, legal ebikes pose no threat, can you agree to that?

In my experience talking with others who have built high speed ebikes, MUPS are the last place they would want to ride because of the pedestrian traffic. Far easier to stay on the road since they can keep up with traffic. It’s not fun for me at all to ride on the wod and custis during the weekends because of the pedestrian traffic. I only really use my ebike to commute to work.

[jnva]

@KLizotte 19092 wrote:

Well said dasgeh and you make some good points that most people don’t think about. I believe many cyclists are anti-ebike because they fear trails, bike lans, etc will be invaded by ebikes that are really mini-motorcycles. Let’s face it, as battery and engine technology improves these bikes will get faster/lighter and some people may not have to pedal at all on their commutes. We already have all-electric cars so making an all-electric bike that can travel a 100 miles without any human pedaling can’t be all that far away.

I hear what you are saying about your ebiking but I do fear a future of 14 year olds on mini-motorcycles on the trails and similar scenarios. Of course we sort of have the same issue with traditional road bikes; improvements in design and materials have made them very fast compared to bikes of 20+ years ago.

I don’t understand this thinking about being afraid of 14 year olds on mini high speed motorcycles etc… These have been available for a long time. Is that a problem on the trails? Legal ebikes will solve a transportation problem in this area, at least it has for me. No need to fear change!

[jnva]

Could not have said it better dasgeh! Ebikes make me feel safer because when I do need to make a quick move to avoid something, I am not exhausted and have the energy and awareness to do it quicker. I’ve commuted without electric assist for a long time and am convinced of this. There’s no reason IMO that legal ebikes should be banned on the mup.

[jnva]

@jabberwocky 18519 wrote:

I would actually bet a lot of people here don’t necessarily care about the law that much either, they care about being safe when they’re out riding. Unfortunately, not allowing e-bikes on MUPs is an area where the law and most folks ideas of safety overlap.

I’d be willing to bet that most of the people who oppose ebikes on mups have never actually ridden an ebike. I have seen way more dangerous behavior from the guys racing on the wod/custis than I have ever seen on people riding ebikes. As a matter of fact on my commute over the past year I’ve only seen two other ebikers besides myself. The safety issue is simply a non issue in my mind. I feel a lot safer riding my ebike in traffic, and on the mup I use common sense like everyone should. Also, fwiw I have never had a negative comment from anyone who notices I am riding an ebike, always get comments like how cool it is, and then I explain that I never drive my car to work anymore. Reading this forum you would think that everyone in this area is an ebike hater when it’s just not true.

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