[jabberwocky]

One thing to consider is something like an OneUp or Wolf Tooth wide range 1×10, coupled with a wide-narrow chainring. Basically they sell a 42t granny ring that goes behind the 36t on an 11-36 MTB cassette, and you ditch one of the smaller cogs, leaving you with an 11-42 cassette. I run this setup on my trail bike and it works very well and almost gives the same range as a normal 2×10 setup.

http://www.oneupcomponents.com/products/42-tooth-sprocket
http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/giant-cog-for-shimano

[jabberwocky]

@Subby 127621 wrote:

Thanks all – I have a chain whip from messing around with my fixed gear bike but I wasn’t sure what kind of cassette lockring tool I needed. Seems like a bunch of different choices. I have an SRAM cassette – so I will figure it out.

Unless you have something really old or exotic (which it does not appear you do), a bog standard tool like the Park FR5 should do it.
http://www.parktool.com/product/cassette-lockring-tool-fr-5

[jabberwocky]

To remove cassette: chainwhip, cassette lockring tool, adjustable wrench (to grip lockring tool)
To remove chainrings: usually just two metric allen wrenches. Sometimes the backside of the chainring bolts use a big flathead (there is a special tool for them but a large flathead screwdriver usually works fine too). Assuming you aren’t actually removing the crankset, which you shouldn’t need to just for chainring cleaning.
Chain: nothing if theres a quicklink, chainbreaker if there isn’t (and a quicklink to put it back on).

[jabberwocky]

@dasgeh 127599 wrote:

But the issue with the ELF is the width. It’s simply too wide for MUPs.

My issue is its a car, as much as their website wants to pretend otherwise. Its large, its enclosed, its motorized. It may be lighter and smaller than your average honda accord, but its certainly not proper for narrow pedestrian trails and sidewalks. The precedent that any goober with 6 grand to burn can buy one of these things and start flying down the W&OD at high speeds is one I find rather worrying.

@KLizotte 127609 wrote:

I really wish there was a way to accommodate these new energy efficient vehicles though.

…roads?

[jabberwocky]

@Raymo853 127408 wrote:

I also screen captured a lot of his website, assuming he may be advised to take it down in the future. If he hits someone, hope their counsel will contact me for copies.

I had this thought yesterday while perusing his site. He’s documenting the fact that he rides on trails where motorized vehicles are banned. Hell, he has a whole section devoted to “the people in charge say I can’t ride there, but I disagree and am doing it anyway”. He even posts ride data where he’s averaging 22-23mph (he says that includes stops, which would make his trail speeds extremely fast). He documents (in detail!) his speed mods.

If he hits someone and they decide to sue him, his web page is going to be an attorneys wet dream.

[jabberwocky]

@hozn 127363 wrote:

I crossed paths with this guy on the W&OD in Vienna today. I was impressed that he did remain in his lane going around the corner in the pinball alley through the Vienna community center construction. I was even more impressed that he did this while texting/looking-up-directions/playing-candy-crush on his phone.

My quick perusal of his website gave me the strong impression that he was a “concerned only with himself, screw everyone else” sort of person, so I find this utterly unsurprising.

I did mention this thread to my ladyfriend (who grew up in Fairfax and has used the W&OD for decades. She was curious what the ELF looked like; when I pulled up the website and showed it to her her response was “holy [expletive], someone thinks its ok to drive that down the W&OD?! What an [expletive]!”

[jabberwocky]

@dasgeh 127337 wrote:

Corollary to this thinking: MUPs are for everyone’s enjoyment, but some cyclists insist on riding too fast and passing too close, ruining the path for others. Speed limits are practically speaking impossible to enforce, so we should either ban all bikes from trails, or accept that some people are going ride recklessly, because of something something technically laws only apply to roadways.

Seems easiest to just flat out ban bikes. Anyone riding in a way that doesn’t make others uncomfortable will be fine. People riding recklessly can be dealt with much more easily.

This is just silly. The reason we have limited things to human power is there is a very hard limit to what human powered vehicles can do. Sure, someone who is very fit can go pretty fast on a road bike, but I strongly doubt that attainable speeds have changed much over the lifetime of bicycling, especially for your average cyclist.

As soon as you add a motor to that, limits go out the window. You’re only limited by the tech. Why don’t we allow motorcycles on the W&OD? Or scooters? They aren’t wider than a bike. Hell, just pave it wider and make it a road and let cars on it!

Human powered is a nice, easy to enforce cutoff. I’m fine with e-assist that largely mimics an average bike, but the problem is that as soon as you open the “motor” door you start getting stuff the infrastructure is woefully inadequate to handle.

[jabberwocky]

@Lt. Dan 127334 wrote:

If this is allowed, maybe I can buy a Smart Car or original Mini Cooper and use those on the trails too? I’ll shut the engine off on the downhills, and occasionally I’ll open my door and kick with my feet so that it’s a Human/Gravity/gas assist vehicle…

Just for giggles:

Smart car: 5′-1″x8′-10″x5′-1″
Original Mini Cooper: 4′-7″x10′-0″x4′-5″
ELF: 4′-1″x9′-0″x5′-1″

The Elf is slightly narrower than the Smart FourTwo and Mini (6″ narrower than a mini and a foot narrower than a Smart) but otherwise very similar in dimension.

[jabberwocky]

@dasgeh 127311 wrote:

There are two very easy lines to draw with respect to e-bikes on trails: 1) measurable limits, like the current ebike standards, possibly adding a maximum width for all bikes on trails (that yes, in practice only get enforced when there is another violation or collision, but can be enforced nonetheless) and 2) regulate behavior: speed limits on trails, etc. The issue is not that normal ebike that the pregnant lady or kid-hauling dad is using on the trails, it’s the crazy person riding a bike that’s too big for the infrastructure and riding too fast/unsafely for conditions WHATEVER BIKE THAT CRAZY IS ON.

Motor limits and speed limits are practically speaking impossible to enforce. It seems we either ban anything motorized (the current rule on the W&OD, whatever “I decide what the rules really are” ELF moron thinks) or we just accept that people are going basically drive electric cars on there, because something something technically ebikes.

Seems easiest to just flat out ban motorized vehicles. Anything subtle enough to not draw attention to itself (like, what you and most other people on this forum ride) will be fine. People riding electric motorcycles and e-cars and stuff can be dealt with much more easily.

[jabberwocky]

@bobco85 127300 wrote:

Food for thought from the ELF owner’s website: http://www.solarbikecar.com/SolarBikeCar.aspx#tab-31

He provides a rebuttal directly underneath this, but according to his own website, the ELF is not allowed on the trail although the law might be on his side.

Another bit of food for thought: he has modified the ELF to go faster (this information is on that page).

What a self righteous douchecanoe.

This right here perfectly encapsulates why I will forever be opposed to anything motorized on MUPs. Because it’s sold as “it’s basically a bike, hardly any power at all, honest!” And then you get idiots like this guy basically driving their electric SUV down a MUP and claiming “I’m allowed to do this!”

[jabberwocky]

@run/bike 127264 wrote:

I’ve seen plenty of recumbent trikes that take up almost as much space on the MUPs…

Point me at a recumbent trike that is anywhere close to the dimensions of an ELF. Their website lists the footprint as 4’x9′. A brief look at trikes from popular mfgs like Catrike or ICE show their larger road trikes as about 2′-8″x6′ or so, which is substantially smaller. And thats ignoring that a recumbent trike is all of 2.5-3′ high, which is a height that is easy to see over for most people, whereas the ELF is 5′-1″, which is only 5″ shorter than a Ford Escape SUV.

[jabberwocky]

I’ve not come across it, but after looking it up online, I don’t think anything that large and motorized should be on the W&OD. Its over 4′ wide (which is wider than pretty much any recumbent trike on the market); considering lane widths on the W&OD vary from 4-5 feet, its almost impossible not to be taking up more than one lane. Its also 9′ long and over 5′ high and weighs, by itself, 160-200 pounds and is capable of motor-only speeds over 20+mph. Thats an awful big, massive vehicle for a MUP IMO.

[jabberwocky]

@dasgeh 126886 wrote:

But fundamentally, this is about safety of people. I am appalled that certain people want to use modern Christianity to say “people should not be safe outside of our doorstep”. As a Christian, I intend to call them on this point.

To be fair, hiding behind religion to justify being a self-centered dick is pretty much what american christianity seems to be about, at least in my experience.

[jabberwocky]

32 spokes is plenty for anything short of heavily loaded touring. The strength of the wheel is the rim/spokes/build. At that price point, the rim and spokes will be fairly cheap, and its likely machine built which ain’t the best.

32 spoke/3cross is pretty standard for MTB wheels, and those are quite robust. Its all the build.

[jabberwocky]

I don’t think the Quick is a super high end bike. I’ve found that, until you get to the multithousand dollar range, stock wheelsets are not generally all that great (by which I mean they are usually junk). Do you know what wheels it came with?

200+ with a pack is gonna stress wheels. I’m close to that, and my road bike (which I commute on with a pack) needs a retrue at least once a year and rim replacements every 3 or so.

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