[Brandon]

For us newbies, is it essential to get snow/studded tires for commuting in the winter and participating in BAFS? My commute is along the W&OD from Vienna to DC. I generally take the W&OD to 4mile run and then the MVT north by the airport but can also take the Custis trail since I’ve heard that they plow the snow from it.

[Brandon]

@hozn 168182 wrote:

Minor correction: I believe class 1 cannot have a throttle, right?

But the second point taht road bikes are faster than class-3 e-bikes generally seems wrong to me. If you are saying that a professional racer is faster than a class-3 e-bike, then perhaps. But being able to hold 28mph for miles on end without the benefit of drafting is not something that road cyclists can do. Or, at least, it’s not something I can do. The fact that the KOM on W&OD between Hunter Mill and Vienna is held by an e-bike (and should be flagged, yes) is telling.

Yeah, *averaging* 19-20mph on a commute of any distance, with stops etc. is not something that non-e-bikes can do. (Or at least would be an extremely select group.)

My point above is that beginner, casual, average, and even most above average riders can’t maintain 28mph for miles on end either on an e-bike (as would be legal under CA’s class system) and so it’s disingenuous to claim that as fact and as a reason for advocating a policy against them. In fact, from what I’ve seen, it seems that there are really just 3 e-bike riders that people generally have a problem with: the solar e-bike guy, gear crusher, and full face moto helmet guy. And it seems that blanket positions are being taken on e-bikes based on those 3. I’ll say that I’ve personally encountered more than 3 unassisted bike riders on my regular commute that regularly ride irresponsibly.

[Brandon]

@lordofthemark 168153 wrote:

If you are on a class 3 ebike, you are doing 28MPH (well 25MPH if you are a PAL, since I guess these are all 25MPH streets) even uphills. How much time are you actually losing on a typical commute, versus say going 18MPH on the Custis? I acknowledge that banning class 3 ebikes will involve SOME inconvenience for a few people. But is it enough inconvience for enough people to warrant a general legalization of class 3 ebikes on trails?

There’s a lot of factual information missing in this thread, with a lot of misrepresentations about e-bikes in general, that is now morphing into specifying class 3 e-bikes. Nothing personal against you and I’m certainly not just trying to call you out in particular, but your post here was pretty pointed so I wanted to use it as an example.

Class 3 e-bikes (if we follow CA’s law and rules) CANNOT have a throttle. Period. Class 1 and 2 can. And that throttle (for class 2) can only assist up to 20mph and then it cuts out. For class 3, the motor can provide a pedal assist up to 28mph sure, but then it cuts out. I’ll tell you right now, that road bikes are faster than class 3 e-bikes generally, not just because of weight, geometry, etc. but trying to pedal beyond that is like pedaling through sand. Furthermore, a 28mph max speed as advertised by manufacturers, is truly a MAX speed. I fell victim to thinking that I would be able to ride that fast when I bought mine, sure. The reality is that even now with 6 months of daily commuting, averaging 130-200 miles a week there’s still no way I can average 28mph. If I’m going all out in the highest level of assistance (which I had to do maybe a month ago as my wife was in a fender bender and I had to get the kids from daycare unexpectedly that day), I was able to average 19-20mph. For comparison, on a non-assist bike, I can average ~13mph on that same route. I work on maintaining around 17mph for my average speed for my daily commute. I’ve been able to turn down the assistance level from 4 when I started to level 2 now and lost ~60 lbs since July.

So this idea that everyone riding a class 3 e-bike is zooming around at 28mph all day long is just false. Maybe years from now when I’m a stronger rider and able to average 19-20mph unassisted I could average that speed on my e-bike, but then that’d be ok because I “earned that speed” right?

And this is in no way meant to be an endorsement of unsafe riding on the trails. It doesn’t matter if you’re on an e-bike or a regular bike, unsafe riding is unsafe riding. I get passed by regular riders all the time. And I pass other riders all the time. Everybody rides their own race. However I do notice that I’m held to a different and much higher standard than regular bike riders. And I’ve had to learn to be ok with that. For some, if I pass you, I’m riding irresponsibly. In reality I think it has more to do with your ego than anything else.

[Brandon]

I feel like I should finally chime in on one of these threads. There’s always a lot of talk about distinguishing between what should or shouldn’t be allowed on trails, in group rides, etc. The general consensus I’ve seen is that the real concern is inexperienced riders flying along the trail at unsafe speeds being jackasses and as long an ebike rider is being courteous, polite, safe, etc. no one really has any heartburn with it. BUT I do think that there’s another distinction which could/should be made in this regard, and that’s a throttle input. My bike has no throttle. It’s not going anywhere unless I’m pedaling and the motor only provides a percentage assist to my pedal effort. This is generally how most ebikes operate, although some also have a throttle or throttle option. And I have no concerns in saying that the assistance the motor gives couldn’t throw up a rooster tail in dirt anymore than a non-ebike in the same circumstances, i.e. if you drop down gear, lean forward, and are really cranking it, I suppose you could.

Additionally, I think it’s really important to really read the Fairfax County Park regulation:
B. Prohibited Vehicles.
(1) No person shall operate within a park a motorized vehicle not licensed for regular use
upon public highways, except that motorized carts furnished or approved by the Park
Authority may be operated within designated areas and motorized wheelchairs may be
operated in areas as provided for in §1.14(C) below.
(2) No person shall operate within a park a farm tractor or other farm machinery or a type of
vehicle used primarily for earth-moving operations, whether or not licensed for regular
use upon public highways, without the express written permission of the Park Authority.
(3) Motor-assisted bicycles (commonly referred to as “mopeds”) are permitted only in areas
where motor vehicles are permitted.

A plain reading of that indicates that the prohibition is for mopeds, gas-powered, throttled motor vehicles. It’s also important to note that the park rules (regulations) haven’t been amended in many years and predate the advent of ebikes. And that more recent state and county statutes have been written and passed which more clearly define and generally prescribe how ebikes should be treated and regulated. Now absolutely, the park authority can decide that ebikes should also be prohibited (should be done by updating their regulations), but it’s worth mentioning these facts because I think they’re on shaky legal ground if they actually tried to cite someone and that person contested it. Because there is a very distinct difference between mopeds (which this regulation is clearly intended for) and electric pedal-assist bikes. Now if that ebike had a throttle, I think it would start to fall more under the prohibition (that’s my opinion).

So in short, I don’t think any ebike should be denied joining a group ride under the auspices that they’re not welcome in FFX county parks. Many would want to join a group ride for the social aspect, to feel part of a community, not that they’re going to have the upper hand in some sort of competition with non-ebike riders. Now, if the group doing the ride has some sort of liability insurance, that’s a totally different story since ebikes would likely not be covered. But, firsthand, I can say that I haven’t participated in any sort of social aspect of biking due to the fear of not being welcomed. I’ve had very rude comments yelled at me on my commute about riding an ebike. And I’m not the guy that’s riding dangerously, I average 14-16 mph on my commute, signal passes, etc. Eventually, by commuting with my ebike, I will lose the weight I am shooting for and be fit enough to be back on a regular bike and will then feel more welcome to join group rides etc. Right now I wouldn’t want to join any on a regular bike and be that guy slowing everyone down.

[Brandon]

@Emm 164810 wrote:

I’m glad I’m not the only one who has done this…I now go so far as to keep 2 spare outfits at work for days when I flat out forget to bring clothing, or something happens to the clothes I’ve brought. So far this year I’ve been lucky–the slacks and shirt only got worn once, and that was because at 5 am I thought a sheer white dress and neon pink undergarments would be a good look for a day I had a meeting with the Secretary of my department. Needless to say at 8 am when I was dressing at work I realized maybe that outfit choice wasn’t such a good idea after all…

It’s also helpful to make friends with the other bike commuters in your office. Between the ones I work with, we have a spare bike lock, multi-tools, tubes, backpacks, sunscreen, and all sorts of other gear that has been passed around when one of us has forgotten something or had something break on us.

HAHA

Ok, so I’ve forgotten my towel before, but I just air dried a bit and accepted slightly wet undergarments for a few hours. I keep 4-5 suits and 8-10 shirts at work along with 2 pairs of shoes and matching belts. I just bring in an undershirt, socks, work underwear, and a second set of underwear for the ride home everyday. I keep thinking I need to bring in an extra of all those and leave them here for worst case scenario. But I’m pretty sure I won’t forget anything major in the morning. I have to get my kids ready for kindergarten and daycare and drop them off in the car before coming home and getting on the bike for the ride in. So I have plenty of time to remember forgotten things before I get out of the house.

[Brandon]

@Left Field 164780 wrote:

Congrats on the weight loss as well! I had a performance suit bag/panier until it wore out after about 4 years. I found that I could fit about 2/3 suits, 4 shirts, and stuff a lot of ties in it. As you are taking them home and don’t care about wrinkles, you can use the exterior pockets and up the number. The only issue I had is that if it is raining hard, the seam will leak a little. But that can fixed with an extra adhesive rubber strip around the exterior zipper and that solved the problem. I use regular panniers now (mix of 1 Ortlieb and 1 Transit) and find that I can generally fit 3 suits and if I stuff, 4 shirts in 1 pannier bag, with nothing else in the bag. Folding/rolling the suits tightly is the key to fitting them.

When you say you could fit 2/3 suits and 4 shirts, did that include the jackets? If so, that would probably be perfect since I can rotate through the stock I keep at my office pretty easily.

[Brandon]

@Emm 164776 wrote:

Welcome! I’m really happy to hear that you’ve been able to integrate biking into your commute and had such fantastic results already

There’s someone on my commute from S. Alexandria to SW DC that rides an ebike and has a small trailer that runs behind him. It looks kinda like this one by burley: https://burley.com/product/travoy/ I like it because it seems like it’s NOT overkill for what he’s using it for–he appears to use it to hold his briefcase and a clothing bag. I’m guessing he likes it well enough since he’s been using it for 2+ years now (based on when I’ve seen him.) If you end up going the trailer route, it might be worth considering something like this if the only use you’d have for the trailer is commuting.

That’s really interesting, especially since I wouldn’t have to fold them over anything at all like the rack with panniers and could use a regular garment bag. It’s definitely more $$ than I was thinking/hoping, but that might be an option.

[Brandon]

@Judd 164777 wrote:

Congrats on the weight loss and also to being able to dial down the pedal assist so quickly. Is getting your dry cleaning done at some place near work an option? That would save you from carrying them at all.

Thanks!
So I’ve been looking at nearby drycleaners too, but I seem to be in a dead zone and it’s a good half mile or more to the closest one, thought about doing a cab/uber but I hate the thought of making it an odyssey to handle drycleaning every couple weeks (and with a LOT higher prices than by my house). So I’m thinking it’s not worth the effort for higher prices if I can just squeeze it in a garment bag once a week or or lug a trailer in every 2-3 weeks.

[Author]

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