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@KLizotte 22089 wrote:

Put another way, do you want your 10 year old daughter taking the lane on Clarendon, by herself, on the way to school? Your 90 year old granddad who has arthritis and bad vision? Going downhill at rush hour? ‘

My “problem” — okay. perhaps one of many — is that I think of my bike as a vehicle and it’s primary purpose is getting me and my stuff from point A to point B. (That’s why I have no tolerance for running red lights and think bikes should be on the roads and not sidewalks, unless the sidewalk is a designated trail.) I also don’t have a problem with kids riding on the sidewalk.

For your first two examples, I’d say they should not be operating a vehicle on the road. Is a 10-year-old going to know all the traffic laws? (I’m not sure I’d even want her riding on the Custis or MVT by herself going to school.) Should someone 90-years-old with bad vision be operating a vehicle on the road? I’m not sure I’d want either one riding in a marked bike lane, since I have seen cars drive several blocks in bike lanes and I’ve even been overtaken by a scooter in a bike lane. Granddad with bad vision is probably going to get doored in a bike lane.

Even if you design segregated/separate facilities for those two examples, where do they start? Where to they start? Even if you put them on all the major thoroughfares, you’ve got to ride on the road at some point and drivers do stupid things and/or speed on every street.

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[ @mstone 22093 wrote:

That’s not blunt, that’s selfish.

Okay, selfish. How do we satisfy the “many people who simply won’t bike without separate” facilities? How does these people get to a separate bike lane or trail? Let’s say I live at S Pershing Dr & S 3rd St and I am not willing to ride without separate facilities — do I walk three-quarters of a mile to the W&OD? Do I drive? Do I ride on the sidewalk (and doge pedestrians), even though it’s a longer route to the trail than the road? I think it is unreasonable to think that we are going to build separate facilities to everyone’s home.

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@jrenaut 22076 wrote:

I think we need a mix of both. Dismal makes a good case for shared, but there are many people who simply won’t bike without separate, and I want those people comfortable biking, too.

Those people can drive to a MUP and ride. (Yeah, I know, I’m being blunt — sorry.) I know some people like this, people who will not ride on the road — not today, not a year from now. This includes people who will not rid in a bike lane and tell em the sidewalk is safer.

My biggest issue is the same one that Mark and Dismal point out — “segregated facilities encourage drivers to think that cyclists no longer belong on the streets.” Expanding on that, segregated facilities will also not go everywhere, so when you do need to ride on the street, drivers won’t think you belong. Very little of my commute is on a trail and only one block — if I take a side street in the afternoon — is on a street with a bike lane.

A couple of times a week, I do get up to Ballston, so I do get to ride a couple of blocks in the bike lanes on Fairfax Drive and then, on the way home, Walter Reed Drive. I’ve had a driver stop, while I am waiting to make a left off of Walter Reed and tell me that I belong in the bike lane. (I think making a left turn from a bike lane is akin to making a left turn from the right lane.)

The existence of segregated facilities will also limit new riders, because they will think that’s where they belong. We had a new employee start last summer and he wanted to bike to work. His problem was there were no bike lanes or trails the first mile or two and he thought that’s where he was “supposed” to ride.

Personally, I’d like to see a coordinated effort to get cyclists off the sidewalks. (No, not just because I spend a fair amount of time as a pedestrian and have too many close encounters with sidewalk riders.) I think the more bikes that are on the road (and obeying traffic laws) will get more people to realize bikes belong on the road. Too many people — cyclists and drivers — don’t know that.

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@jnva 22007 wrote:

I thought pedestrians have the right of way on a multiuser path – why do you want them to move?

Pedestrians do have the right of way, but that does not mean they own the trail. (Actually, while they clearly do have it on sidewalks, aren’t they supposed to “share the trail”?) On the other hand, if they are walking down the center of the trail, I think it is reasonable to expect them to move aside — share the trail — slightly so I can pass. If it’s two pedestrians walking side-by-side, I don’t think it’s too much for one of them to briefly move aside so I can pass. (I’ll even say, “Excuse me” in such circumstances.) In either situation, however, if they won’t move, I’ll stop.

@jnva 22007 wrote:

This is the problem I have with this situation. I have a hard time believing this 80 year old woman was ignoring the cyclists warnings.

According to the report, the cyclist not only “yelled” a warning, he rang his bell. It sounds like she heard part of that and stepped LEFT and into the cyclist’s path: “This is when the 80 year old woman stepped to her left and turned around to be struck head-on, causing her to fall backwards to the ground.” This is why several people have said, “on your left” can be confusing.

@jnva 22007 wrote:

If you as a cyclist can not stop in time to avoid hitting a pedestrian on a mup, then you are going too fast.

No matter how slow you are going, I can step in front of you without giving you time to stop and avoid hitting me. We have no idea how fast the cyclist was going or how hard he struck her. All we know is he hit her directly, head-on. At 80 years old and without being able to brace herself, it would not take much to knock her over. You can fall backwards of a curb and strike your head on the asphalt and die.

It’s a tragic, tragic accident. It would be nice if there were no such thing as accidents and we all want to minimize them, but sometimes they happen. What we need to do is see what can be done to prevent similar accidents in the future. In this case, since we don’t know the speed of the cyclist, maybe saying “passing” or “passing on your left” instead of “on your left,” is the takeaway.

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@Greenbelt 21943 wrote:

One thing I try to remind myself is that it’s OK to ride off trail to avoid an erratic or unexpected move on the trails. At least in most places it’s just grass, and worst case scenario if I lose it is a dirty bruise or two.

Or a flat. I tend to avoid going off the trail if at all possible and would rather stop. I’ve gotten several flats, glass and nails, from riding off the trail and on the “grass.” I’ll do it on occasion, such as last week, when two tourists completely blocked the trail with their bikes after dismounting to take a picture, but it’s rare for me to do it.

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@Tim Kelley 21922 wrote:

The other thing I’ve noticed Pete does, is say “Thanks” after calling and making the pass. He does it every single time, regardless of whether or not the person being passed moved over or gave some recognition of hearing the call. People wearing headphones may not have even heard him, but he still says it.

I tend to do this as well. Not making it a conversation, even a one-sided one, like Dirt does, just a simple, “Thanks.” I admit that one reason I do it is because some people don’t move, even when it’s clear that they heard or saw me before the pass, so I think that by saying “Thanks,” they might move the next time.

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@consularrider 21942 wrote:

I like the bar-end Incredibell for road bikes.

http://www.mirrycle.com/barend.php

I tried it, but it’s not loud enough. Besides that, it broke when I took a fall last fall.

In my experience, the cheap bar end version is louder. It’s also more vulnerable to crashes and scrapes, though.

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@brendan 21956 wrote:

One can argue either case as to whether cyclists or pedestrians are the most vulnerable. But as cyclists, we’re bringing our speed into the picture…which means we’re bringing the higher level of danger upon ourselves and pedestrians…and we control that speed. So, I think more responsibility rests upon us.

It’s also not simply going to fast for the road/trail conditions (weather, people, etc.); but also going to fast for one’s skill level.

As a pedestrian, I’ve been nailed by a bike on a MUT, many, many years ago. Hit from behind with no warning, from someone who was going faster than they could control their bike. (Luckily, for me, it was not too fast.)

Many of the close encounters I see between cyclists and pedestrians involve a cyclist going “to fast” for their ability to control their bike. I see this often on the Custis Trail — riders going faster than they can make some of those turns and stay in their “lane.” (Someone else recently mentioned this.) Going to faster in areas where a pedestrian or bike can suddenly “appear.”

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@Dirt 21957 wrote:

The main reason for that is that I completely forgot to reproduce. I’m in awe of people who keep a sense of balance when they have kids. That balance moves around a lot and you are amazing to do what you do. Serious kudos to you!

I didn’t forget, I (we) never had the desire.

I sort of have things balanced. During the week, I ride, work, and get some other things done. Recently, I’ve added a morning ride mostly just for the heck of it. When thing I found, when I finally ditched my car, was that I soon gave up riding just for the heck of it, just for fun. Oh, I enjoy my commute and such, but my rides are always about getting to and from some destination. Once I was “car-free,” I was always spending time to go here or go there, I didn’t just go. (I also hate crowds, so a middle of the day ride on the weekends was not a big draw.) Lately, I’ve been heading out early on Saturdays, “just to ride.” (Well, I still have a destination, but I could I take a much longer route to get to IHOP than I do riding home.)

What have I given up? I’m not sure. I think riding just for fun, but I’m bringing that back. Like you, keeping things (home, bikes) really clean (ad in good working order). At times, I’ve given up sleep, but I am trying to get that back.

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@consularrider 21839 wrote:

However, before the 4 Mile Run extension under I-365 opened, I often had to endure multiple bus dropoffs at a the Barrett Elementary School just about every morning. Since I stop for a school bus with it’s red flashers on and stop signs extended, I eventually figured out that the best way around this back up was to become a true pedestrian and walked my bike on the sidewalk there (it’s across the Martha Custis/Valley Dr intersection from the school). It meant adding all of 30 seconds rather than several minutes.

I’m glad you put the streets in there, because I could not figure out why the 4 Mile Run extension would make any difference. I was thinking of K.W. Barrett Elementary School in Arlington (N George Mason Dr & N Henderson Rd) and not the Charles Barrett School in Alexandria.

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@GuyContinental 21849 wrote:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1182[/ATTACH]we are many months away from ninja season (except for ccrew…) but improper lighting on all types of MUT users is one of the bigger safety issues IMO.

Since my commute is at the same time as Ccrew, I agree about the lighting. Luckily, like Ccrew, I usually don’t encounter many cyclists at that hour. Recently, I’ve been out later on Saturdays, around 4:00-4:30 a.m. on the MVT and I do encounter MUT users without proper lighting and/or anything reflective. Last Saturday, as I passed the Pentagon at 4:08 a.m., a ninja was riding on Route 27 — no lights or reflectors on the bike, no helmet to hold a light, wearing a dark blue top and black bottoms — the only thing reflective were the tabs on the back of her shoes. As I was on the trail, I was not directly behind her, but I could not see her when she was more than 50 feet away; the cars on 27 were going faster and were on top of her before they realized what was going on. (I was wondering why cars were hitting the brakes.)

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@GuyContinental 21838 wrote:

I’d be happy with a few very visual no headphones, no ninjas and stay right signs…

I thought ninjas were supposed to be invisible — at least the good ones — so does that mean a “No Ninjas” sign is blank or simply a red circle with a slash through it? Yeah, that won’t confuse the tourists.

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@ShawnoftheDread 21832 wrote:

Why not dismount and walk on the sidewalk with the deboarding kids until you pass the bus?

Because the sidewalk is full of kids and whomever is meeting them. (This stop is at an intersection and surrounded by apartment buildings.) I’m not complaining. Sure, I’d rather get through there before the bus and not have to wait, but I have no problem obeying the law and stopping.

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Except for the Dirt wannabee on a motorcycle — singing at the top of his lungs — it was not really any different than any other Monday morning. Of course, other than CCrew, no one else is up and out riding at 3:00 a.m.

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@vvill 21815 wrote:

I always treat myself as any other road vehicle when near a school bus. One time the driver emphatically encouraged me to go around because I was waiting on my bike and said I didn’t need to wait.

Exactly. You’re on the road, you’re a vehicle. My afternoon commute is often a race to avoid the Never-ending Bus From Hell. (I’m sure there are more than 100 kids on it!) Most of the time, I’m about two minutes in front of it but I’ve literally been racing down the street trying to keep it from passing me, because if it makes the upcoming stop, I’ll be stuck for 5-6 minutes or more. (Yes, I’ve timed it.)

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