Your latest bike purchase?

[dkel]

@dasgeh 102332 wrote:

A friend who lives in Charlotte (in a neighborhood with density similar to Fairfax) recently posted something about having a deer in her yard and “I don’t even live in the suburbs”. The fact that Arlington isn’t part of DC is historic accident. If we were further south and in the same state, Arlington and probably Falls Church would be part of the city. What’s more useful is to talk in terms of types of density, and I’ve never heard a good term for what Arlington is. It’s not urban, in the sense of, say, Chinatown, but neither is much of DC. It’s not suburban in the sense of Fairfax. It’s in between, and I think much of the population of the US is going to live in situations like Arlington in the mid-range future, so it would be nice to have an easy name for it.

With the notable exception of the Wilson Blvd corridor, Arlington is largely single-family, residential neighborhoods. A satellite image of DC looks dramatically different from NoVa, due to the integration of residential and business areas (in many places), the predominance of apartment and condominium residences, and the lack of green space. Any time you can go miles in any direction and see nothing but yards and houses (as in Arlington), I think suburbs. Still, Arlington does look different from Vienna, for example.

[lordofthemark]

In addition to RB corridor, Arlington has Crystal City, Pentagon City, Columbia Pike, Shirlington, that whole section along four mile run with older hirises south of Columbia Pike, scattered hi rises along Rte 50, and the new urbanist stuff near EFC metro. As well as older semi detached houses along Glebe, newer townhouses in scattered areas of south arlington, etc. Not to mention that several of the oldest SFH areas in North Arlington are more streetcar suburb/uptown urban – gridded streets, sidewalks, houses on small lots. Not very different from the SFH areas of DC or Alexandria. (I will omit my linguistic quibble at residential meaning SFHs because that seems to be the predominant usage in the USA today – as is using SFH to mean only detached houses – you can take the boy out of Brooklyn, but you can’t take Brooklyn out of the boy)

So I largely agree with Dasgeh. But then I am a “hipster” (but more in the organic craft beer/lets all bike for the environment sense than the PBR/fixie sense) . I think the term she is looking for is low density Walkable Urban Place, or something like that (though there we go with the word urban again)

[dasgeh]

@dkel 102339 wrote:

With the notable exception of the Wilson Blvd corridor, Arlington is largely single-family, residential neighborhoods. A satellite image of DC looks dramatically different from NoVa, due to the integration of residential and business areas (in many places), the predominance of apartment and condominium residences, and the lack of green space. Any time you can go miles in any direction and see nothing but yards and houses (as in Arlington), I think suburbs. Still, Arlington does look different from Vienna, for example.

Actually, the exceptions to the SFH norm in Arlington are Wilson/Clarendon, Lee, Columbia Pike, Jefferson Davis/Rte 1, Shirlington, a good part of 50 and Glebe between Washington and 50. Arlington’s not that large, and that’s a lot of it. Plus, the SFH neighborhoods have much smaller lots than in some places like, say, Charlotte, and a LOT more interspersed retail. I’d be shocked if you could find a house in Arlington that’s more than a mile from some store (except maybe in the north corner). Arlington looks a lot like the outer reaches of DC, which, really, it is.

But whether people live attached or detached, on top of each other or not, it’s more accurate to talk about density, which captures how many people in a given space (so size of lots, eg). Most of Arlington is a lot more dense than Vienna, and similarly dense to NW DC.

[dkel]

Fair enough.

@dasgeh 102345 wrote:

Most of Arlington is a lot more dense than Vienna

Working in Vienna, I hear this all the time. Usually from conservatives. :rolleyes:

[jabberwocky]

Arlington county is pretty dense. Its certainly more urban than Fairfax County. Its actually not too far off the density of Washington DC proper (Wikipedia has DC at 10,500 per sq mile, and Arlington County at 8,300 per sq mile). Compare that to Fairfax County at 2,750 or so, and still about twice the density of more urban places in Fairfax like Tysons (4,600 per sq mile) Vienna (3,600), Fairfax (3,600) or Reston (3,400).

EDIT: City of Falls Church looks to be a bit more of an urban density at 6,200 or so per sq mile. Still less dense than Arlington County as a whole, and the actual city is tiny (~2 sq miles).

[lordofthemark]

@dkel 102051 wrote:

Beard, FG bike…just sayin’.

Seriously, though, is anyone on this forum really a hipster? Everyone I’ve met has serious disqualifications, suburban living being a common one, and age being another.

As if “hipster” had any real meaning. Who is a hipster – someone who drinks PBR ironically, or someone who drinks organic locally sourced beer with the completly sincere and unironic belief they are saving the planet, saving a less corporate dominated way of life, or both? They overlap in some of their dislikes, and to some degree in their residential preferences, but they are different things. The word has evolved from the time of Alan Ginsburg to the appropriation of it by a certain set of post modernist arts types, to the use of it as a derogatory term against the large number of young people with environmentalist beliefs and/or cultural preferences against a certain kind of suburban (but lots of people in the suburbs share those concerns) way of life.

I am a baby boomer with a bit of grey hair. I was never a real 60s radical (a bit too young, and too much a centrist pragmatist type) but I do remember living in an urban neighborhood (Brooklyn BEFORE it was cool) at a time when national chain restaurants and even chain stores were a rarity (I don’t think Brooklyn got a McDonalds till I was in college – there were stil locally owned dept stores – Brooklyn was not wired for cable TV till AFTER I was in college – NYC’s last big local breweries were just closing – etc) I have been filled with hope by the “new paradigms” adopted by so many college educated millenials (but the sincere types, not the ironic types so much) My daughter is into locally sourced everything and attended the climate march in NYC – even if I dont feel so guilty about buying corporate food, and I am more sympathetic to the Environmetnal Defense Fund that my daughters heros think is too corporate, I am glad to see her passion for change. So I don’t take offense at being called a hipster myself – even if ironically

[cyclingfool]

@jabberwocky 102350 wrote:

Arlington county is pretty dense. Its certainly more urban than Fairfax County. Its actually not too far off the density of Washington DC proper (Wikipedia has DC at 10,500 per sq mile, and Arlington County at 8,300 per sq mile). Compare that to Fairfax County at 2,750 or so, and still about twice the density of more urban places in Fairfax like Tysons (4,600 per sq mile) Vienna (3,600), Fairfax (3,600) or Reston (3,400).

EDIT: City of Falls Church looks to be a bit more of an urban density at 6,200 or so per sq mile. Still less dense than Arlington County as a whole, and the actual city is tiny (~2 sq miles).

Yeah, and Alexandria is in the same ballpark as Arlington at 8,400-ish per sq. mi. When I take surveys and they ask if I live in an urban, suburban, etc. area, I go with urban as an answer now. Alexandria feels suburban to me in lots of ways, but Del Ray is at least as dense as Brookland in NE DC where I used to live. Most parts of Arlington, too. And the term suburban conjures up a very different (negative) image in my head than the relatively neat compact street grids of Del Ray, Old Town, and Arlington’s neighborhoods.

[americancyclo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density

Mt Ranier gets DC on the board for the list of US incorporated places with a density of 13,038

[mstone]

@lordofthemark 102354 wrote:

Who is a hipster – someone who drinks PBR ironically, or someone who drinks organic locally sourced beer with the completly sincere and unironic belief they are saving the planet, saving a less corporate dominated way of life, or both?

I think you’re confusing “hipster” and “hippie”; hipster is a marketing term, not a way of life. So, the first one.

[Steve O]

@dkel 102339 wrote:

With the notable exception of the Wilson Blvd corridor, Arlington is largely single-family, residential neighborhoods.

I would add Crystal City and Shirlington/Fairlington to the notable exceptions list.
Just an FYI that 59% of housing units in Arlington are in multifamily buildings. So although the single-family homes take up a lot of the physical area, the majority of the housing is in an essentially urban environment.

[jabberwocky]

Even within cities, density varies a lot. Historical reasons, commuting infrastructure (or lack thereof), zoning restrictions, etc. There are parts of DC that would feel pretty suburban compared to the city core, and parts of Alexandria that feel quite urban. There are even parts of Fairfax that feel very city-like, despite the lower overall density. I studied planning a bit in college (I’m an architect) and have always found the suburb phenomenon pretty fascinating. Its a very modern creation.

Its worth noting that like 3/4 of the US population already lives in a major metro area. Most people, if they don’t live in a city, at least live pretty close to one.

[dplasters]

Keeping in mind we are actually getting less dense as a country.

“In the US as a whole, population-weighted population density fell by 16 people per square mile between 2000 and 2010, while in metropolitan areas it fell by an enormous 405 people per square mile.“

Like for reals, our modern city living is super spacious compared to the past.

Gentrification means tiny units converted into larger units that house smaller families.

Fairfax County is goofy. Near Dunn Lorring, Huntington and the Vienna Metro you are starting to see them finally start to pack it in a bit, Seven Corners is very dense. Although the county appears to be failing miserably at the Franconia/Springfield Metro. I might also just be saying that because I live there (Vienna) and like to imagine a day in which those areas are more densely populated with a less car centered focus. Then you have Clifton. Clifton is just the middle of nowhere.

As a side note, if people keep flattening the post ww2 homes on cottage street in vienna and replacing them with those enormous houses the average yard size will be equal to that of those in Arlington and could just turn into nearly townhomes.. cause damn they build to everrrryyyy edge of that lot.

Additional side note – My mom had a house off of Fulton St near foxhall road and across from Wesley Heights Park. It was every bit as suburban as my father’s home in Springfield. The difference of course is how close much more dense living arrangements were in DC vs Springfield. I actually taught myself to ride a bike in the backyard of that home off Fulton. O, the memories. South and West of AU is like DCs little suburbia.

[dkel]

Having grown up in this area, I can say things have changed considerably since the 70’s (which is as far back as I go). Even Arlington has changed a lot in that amount of time: the Arlington Hospital I was born in was knocked down and entirely rebuilt, if I am remembering correctly. Shirlington, for example, is far more a destination now than it was 40 years ago. I think most of NoVa had more of a suburb feel then than it does today, due to population growth generally, as well as infrastructure improvements and demographic changes. I still think of this side of the Potomac as “the suburbs,” but that’s definitely anachronistic of me.

[lordofthemark]

@dplasters 102378 wrote:

Keeping in mind we are actually getting less dense as a country.

Like for reals, our modern city living is super spacious compared to the past.

Gentrification means tiny units converted into larger units that house smaller families.

Duh, 1910. When the LES tenements had people living multiple people to a room, in response to a desperate housing shortage triggered my mass immigration (far worse than the overcrowded garden apts pearl clutchers from Baileys to Annandale kvetch about) That was not changed by gentrification but the movement of people like my grandparents from places like the LES to less dense urban areas in Brooklyn and the Bronx. Manhattan continued to lose population after WW2 when the suburban wave hit. More recently it has grown.

It may be we are still growing less dense in recent years – not every places is one of the top metros – folks in Fargo and Omaha and even Dallas keep moving to big suburban house, and its not like even here there aren’t building new houses in loudoun (and Charles? and Stafford?)

[dplasters]

@lordofthemark 102381 wrote:

Duh, 1910. When the LES tenements had people living multiple people to a room, in response to a desperate housing shortage triggered my mass immigration (far worse than the overcrowded garden apts pearl clutchers from Baileys to Annandale kvetch about) That was not changed by gentrification but the movement of people like my grandparents from places like the LES to less dense urban areas in Brooklyn and the Bronx. Manhattan continued to lose population after WW2 when the suburban wave hit. More recently it has grown.

It may be we are still growing less dense in recent years – not every places is one of the top metros – folks in Fargo and Omaha and even Dallas keep moving to big suburban house, and its not like even here there aren’t building new houses in loudoun (and Charles? and Stafford?)

True. My point wasn’t that the large drops from the early 1900s were due to gentrification. It was more along the lines that
1) Increased density isn’t necessarily good after some point.
2) DC is an exception to the national trend, but DC has a very different history than many other cities in the US. So thats not shocking.
3) Home values going up and people “moving in” to a city doesn’t necessarily mean that population density increases. If the people that move in take up more space and new larger buildings are not created density can actually go down. Given that DC can’t build up and the immense cost of buying individual plots, there is an upper bound on density in DC proper that is easier to hit than other cities.

*Edit – On Topic!

These pants rock. Especially for the price. Water resistant? feels like it but not yet tested, windproof lovely lining. Sizing will make you feel like a giant.

The Sparse lights rock. I will probably put together a short review of them but generally – They make you SUPER visible. They are no good for trails/paths. You need street / ambient lighting still. They look awesome and feel like you could hurl them down an elevator shaft and they would still work.

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