On your left – tales of woe

[Dirt]

@pfunkallstar 18302 wrote:

I’m fine with trail culture as long as it isn’t Oregon Trail culture, in which case Little Annie has just perished from dysentery.

Donner Party trail culture!!!!

[StopMeansStop]

@jabberwocky 18240 wrote:

I’ve had that happen a lot over the years. Using a bell helps, but honestly, if I see headphone cords these days I don’t even bother giving a warning. If they really wanted to hear whats going on around them, they wouldn’t be wearing fricking headphones. :rolleyes:

Hey, not all of us headphone wearers are oblivious. It helps not to listen to music though.

[MCL1981]

You guys that protest headphones by not calling your pass are part of the problem. You’re making it worse. You’re ASSuming the person with the headphones can not hear you and that is flat wrong. I doubt you’ll change your protest because I said so though. So when you crash in the name of protesting, make sure to include that in the report…

[CCrew]

@MCL1981 18342 wrote:

You’re making it worse. You’re ASSuming the person with the headphones can not hear you and that is flat wrong.

I ASSume that car drivers are out to kill me too, and while not true either so far that’s kept me from being a hood ornament. And ASSuming that every jogger can hear us when wearing earphones is nothing more than pure folly. I would say they’re the exception rather than the rule.

Here’s where I am on this. I will always stop pedaling when I approach a ped on the trail. Main reason is to determine their intent but is also because the freewheel on my Easton’s is about the loudest ratchet you ever heard. It scares deer, peds, and wakes the occasional zombie. You’ll hear it before the doppler effect will allow my voice to be heard. If they clearly notice it, I’ll call the pass. If they’re oblivious? Oh well. You would be surprised how effective it really is.

[MCL1981]

@CCrew 18345 wrote:

And ASSuming that every jogger can hear us when wearing earphones is nothing more than pure folly.

No I’m not assuming that at all. That’s not what I said. The number of people who do an do not hear it is completely irrelevant. I don’t think a loud back wheel counts as calling a pass. If you don’t want to speak, that is what a bell is for. You (and others) are protesting something you don’t like by intentionally ignoring your responsibility.

And people wonder where the arrogant self centered stereotype for cyclists comes from….

[CCrew]

@MCL1981 18347 wrote:

I don’t think a loud back wheel counts as calling a pass.

No one ever said it did. But it is, as I said, an attention getting device – not unlike a bell.

As to stereotypes, you’re doing a good job.

[MCL1981]

@vvill 18321 wrote:

Ok so on my way home today I called *every* pass but at one point another guy on a road bike flew by me with zero warning. *shrug* There just doesn’t seem to be much consistency with calling passes. I also experimented between the bell and calling passes. The bell seemed to get more attention instantly but also startled people more. Except in one case where calling the pass startled someone enough to move to their left. I’m not convinced on this one.

You should ring the bell about 2-3 seconds before you reach the person you’re passing for exactly that reason. Ringing (or yelling) while right on top of the person will just scare the crap of them. It startles me when people do that too. Plus it’s just rude.

@CCrew 18349 wrote:

As to stereotypes, you’re doing a good job.

Yes, I am so stereotypical of people who try to be courteous and follow the rules on the trail for everyone’s proactive safety. Shame on me.

[Tim Kelley]

@CCrew 18345 wrote:

You’ll hear it before the doppler effect will allow my voice to be heard. If they clearly notice it, I’ll call the pass. If they’re oblivious? Oh well. You would be surprised how effective it really is.

How can you tell if they clearly notice it or not? As a runner when I hear anyone coming up behind me (bike or pedestrian), I hold my line to remain as predictable as possible, particularly when I’m pushing a wide jogging stroller.

My freewheel is quite loud as well and I find your coasting method more effective for passing other cyclists, rather than pedestrians. Being the super biker that you are, I would expect that pedestrians are just moving to slow to react to you, unless you’re also braking and slowing way down when you coast.

And FYI for all–here’s the official Arlington County literature on “Sharing the Way“

[dbb]

While warining early is good, the faster you go, the further away you are from the person you are warning. At 10 mph, 2 seconds is 29 feet. Speed up to 15 mph and that grows to 44 feet. At 20 mph, you are now 59 feet behind the person you will be passing in two seconds. Please note that I am not advocating any of these speeds on the trail, just discussing the distance traveled.

Unless you have a warning device of great volume, you will likely have to make your call a bit closer than two seconds out. I am not sure a voice will be particularly noticable at 44 feet when mixed with the myriad background noise often present on the trails.

As the mornings are getting brighter the warning our lights give to a trail user ahead will disappear, so we need to be aware.

I try to both ease up on the speed and give a warning a second or so before I pass. It is a balance between being heard and not scaring the crap out of the peds.

I use a bell for peds and call my passes with cyclists (on the occasion I am able to pass another rider). We can encourage cyclists to call their passes by responding, “thanks”.

[jabberwocky]

@MCL1981 18342 wrote:

You guys that protest headphones by not calling your pass are part of the problem. You’re making it worse. You’re ASSuming the person with the headphones can not hear you and that is flat wrong. I doubt you’ll change your protest because I said so though. So when you crash in the name of protesting, make sure to include that in the report…

I commuted on the W&OD for several years and logged tens of thousands of miles there. My experience is that I’m actually better off not calling passes on headphone-wearers, because they react really randomly when I do so. Its not really a protest, its just (IME) the best way to deal with them.

If you’re among the 10% or so of headphone wearers who aren’t total idiots, I salute you and apologize in advance.

[creadinger]

I have a squeaky front brake, which is good for alerting people I’m coming up. How do I know? People will glance back to look. The other thing is that I’m never going anywhere on a trail where I’m in THAT much of a hurry where I’m passing people at 20mph. I’m that biker guy who will slow down to a walking pace because on coming peds and bikers are in the way and there’s not enough room to pass. On a completely empty trail, save for one jogger in my way I’ll just pass as far to the left as possible and not give a warning because he’s clearly where he should be, cannot move over any more anyway. I’m also arrogant and self-centered.

[pfunkallstar]

@jabberwocky 18365 wrote:

I commuted on the W&OD for several years and logged tens of thousands of miles there. My experience is that I’m actually better off not calling passes on headphone-wearers, because they react really randomly when I do so. Its not really a protest, its just (IME) the best way to deal with them.

If you’re among the 10% or so of headphone wearers who aren’t total idiots, I salute you and apologize in advance.

Ditto on this, W und OD headphone wearers, specifically that one woman who runs in a Kenmore Middle School Shirt circa 1996 (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!), have a hard time grasping that A) other people are on the trail, the center line is not there to pace out on, and C) if you hold up your left hand your index finger and thumb form the shape of an “L,” which also happens to be the first letter of the word “left.”

Also, the Arlington County “Sharing the Way” guide informs us to “use verbal warnings only when necessary,” which is just plain awful advice. I let out a guttural, Braveheart-esque warning before every pass, it is good for society and the digestion.

[dasgeh]

I’m still in the “call every pass” camp, in part because of the “trail culture” idea. Even if the headphone-wearer in front of you can’t hear, the other people around (and sometimes you don’t see them) will hear and respect that you’re a rule-following cyclist. And you’ll get in the habit of calling every pass. Besides, you never know what they’re wearing (could be an old school hearing aid) or listening to (could be nothing), so they may hear you.

In my experience, about 1/3 of the peds I pass react completely randomly, headphones or no. I always slow down when I approach peds, and am ready with hands on breaks to stop quickly (or know where I’d go) in case a ped does freak out. Of course, I’m mostly around peds near monuments, so many of them are tourists, some from places that don’t seem to have bikes. WHICH IS WHY WE NEED INSTRUCTIONAL SIGNS!!

[rcannon100]

A thought on why experiences may be different.

One variable is WHEN the signal is give. As a fellow cyclists, I can share and confess that I hate the signal that is two feet from my ear. Yelling “LEFT” in my ear means you are already on my left, does not give me a chance to move right, and does not avoid me floating left into your path if I am avoiding something like one of those Custis Trail moguls.

I signal probably 50′ behind the person with a bell. It creates a nice doppler effect giving them notice not only that I am there but also how fast I am coming. I almost always get positive responses (except for those haters). One thing haters have yelled at me is when the signal is too close.

If you signal within 10′, that could be why you are startling people and why you are getting negative reactions.

[mstone]

@pfunkallstar 18374 wrote:

Also, the Arlington County “Sharing the Way” guide informs us to “use verbal warnings only when necessary,” which is just plain awful advice. I let out a guttural, Braveheart-esque warning before every pass, it is good for society and the digestion.

I agree with the advice; you should use a bell unless there’s something that really needs to be communicated with speech.

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