My Evening Commute
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- This topic has 1,933 replies, 155 voices, and was last updated 3 months, 3 weeks ago by
cathy liang.
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AuthorPosts
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March 4, 2015 at 11:57 pm #1024764
dbb
ParticipantMarch 5, 2015 at 12:52 am #1024767OneEighth
ParticipantSweet shot, dbb.
March 5, 2015 at 1:46 am #1024770rcannon100
Participant@bobco85 110100 wrote:
I’m not upset, but to be brief, people double parking is a selfish act by definition (i.e., I’m not condemning the act, but I am judging it on face value) even if it does not personally bother me or inconvenience me, and I was starting to go off track with my rant (double parking -> blocking a lane -> delivery trucks blocking bike lanes -> condemnation; a bit disorganized and weak, really) so I cut it off.
My point is, why would someone need to double park anymore when pick-ups can be easily coordinated by cell phone?
Usually how it works is people say that they will meet at some time at some place. Now the probability of this happening has many variables. One is how far people live from the subways stop. Commonly that’s why people pick up family at the subways stop – because they live too far from the stop to walk. And of course the farther you live, the more uncertain one can predict the meet time. And there is the variable of the subway itself – which proves itself entirely unreliable. More than likely, they will miss by a few minutes. Which, frankly, is not a big deal.
Now – all things being equal – is it more comfortable for a person to wait in a car or wait standing at the bus shelter at Ballston…. like, today? My guess is that it is easier for the person waiting in the car. If I, who can sit in a car, insist that my wife stand out at the bus station while I drive to Ballston – do you think she might call me “selfish”
Now again, Arlington creates a transportation center. It builds spaces for buses. It builds spaces for bike share. It builds spaces for a taxi stand. But it provides no kiss and ride.
This is one of these things when you do engineering you have to take morals and shoulds out of the equation. Given that situation, with the factor that the Ballston stop is high volume, the outcome is 100% predictable. People will come to pick up people and will need space to do so. It’s like predicting where water will flow. No “people should do this” or “morals” or “judgements”. Just empirical observations that there will be a lot of traffic there and either it will have a place to go or not. If you dont build a Kiss and Ride – then that traffic goes somewhere.
Okay, so someone drives up. Here are the options
(a) Park. Good if there is some. Notoriously there is not parking in Ballston.
(b) Double park. You dont block traffic. It can still get by. You dont block bicycles. If you block a car that is parked, you just move. You dont add to traffic going through the congested intersections. Your carbon footprint is lower than if you drive around and around and around. You are really not imposing on anyone. No one has said how double parking at Ballston is a problem. You will be there when your friend shows up, that’s good, and you will get out of there faster, which is also good.
(c) Drive round and round. This congests the intersections, particularly the one by the mall. It also means you are repeatedly going through some of the pedestrian crossings in the area. You are burning more fuel. There is an increased risk of accidents (even if it is a small increase). And, well, what exactly are you achieving?You comment that the parking is important for food trucks during lunch. But that is not what we are talking about, are we? People picking up passengers at Ballston is a thing during peak hours – rush hour – not lunch hour.
Oh, and you mentioned blocking bike lanes. But that is not what we are talking about either. There is no bike lane here. There is very little bike traffic here. This is a two block street. Most of the traffic on this street – is related to the subway stop.
Oh, and you also mentioned delivery trucks. Last I checked, I am a person, in a car, picking up my wife. I’ll check. But I dont think I own a delivery truck. Hate delivery trucks all you want. But why am I selfish because delivery trucks are dinguses?
Oh, and you mentioned everyone owns cell phones. Not true. I work for the FCC. I know the data. Not everyone does. I, in fact, do not.
I also happen to know the cell phones dont work very well in WMATA subway tunnels. Sometimes, sometimes not – depending on the carrier.
But let’s assume people do have cell phones. And let’s assume that minimization of wasted time is a good (not a moral good – just an economic good). What people will normally do is make their best guess, coordinate at the beginning of the trip, and try to arrive at the same point at the same time. If they do this, one person is likely to wait 1 to 5 minutes. On the other hand, if the person with the cell phone waits till they arrive at the station – calls – the family member receives the call – stops what they are doing – goes to the car – drives to the subway station – this is a variable. For us, that is probably more than 10 minutes.
And there is another factor. If I am at home, I have been traveling for 0 minutes. My wife has been traveling for 40 minutes by the time she hits ballston. Which one is selfish? For me to wait a couple minutes – when I have not been traveling – for my wife at the station – or for my wife to wait 10 more minutes after having traveled 40 minutes?
Let’s see. You mention that you could always pull into the parking spot. I think that is the very definition of double parking – that the parking lane has been taken – and the only spots available are the double parking ones. At any rate, at Ballston, that’s is consistent with my observation. If spots are available, people take them. Only a selfish person would double park when there is no need to.
You insist that you are not upset, but you are calling me selfish for double parking. Okay, let’s go to the authority:
Selfish: (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one’s own personal profit or pleasure.
Well let’s start at the beginning.
* I am coming to the metro to pick up my wife – I am doing something for someone else. Not exactly selfish.
* I am opting for the option where my wife does not spend time waiting for me at the station – I wait for her. Not exactly selfish.
* I am opting for the option where I do not ask my wife to wait outside on a day like today – not exactly selfish.
* Between endlessly driving around the block and parking the car, I am choosing the option with the lower greenhouse footprint. Not exactly selfish.
* I have chosen to double park – if I have to – on a street that is not a through street – it goes two blocks – where most of the traffic coming through is metro related – and I dont block traffic. I dont inconvenience anyone (If I am inconveniencing someone, who?)So which is selfish? Demanding that people conform to your notions – or just not worrying about it and letting people figure it out themselves as many peoples situations are different, than say yours (after all the paradigm of selfish is defining how the world operates by yourself).
March 5, 2015 at 2:51 am #1024775mstone
ParticipantSure, it’s fine for you to park there, and sure it doesn’t hurt anything. More than eleven thousand people board daily at Ballston. Can all of them have somebody double park to wait for them? Is it really stupid for Arlington to have not made provisions for that? At what point does the double parking become egregious? Can 1 person park there? 2? 10? If you’re really not causing a problem nobody really cares. But do recognize you’re not actually standing on the moral high ground and be prepared to move if it does cause a problem.
March 5, 2015 at 3:06 am #1024777ShawnoftheDread
ParticipantTwo questions for Bob: how did you get so much free time tonight, and how fast do you type?
March 5, 2015 at 3:12 am #1024778rcannon100
Participant@ShawnoftheDread 110187 wrote:
Two questions for Bob: how did you get so much free time tonight, and how fast do you type?
Oh, I typed it while double parked waiting for my wife at Ballston. She never showed up. I think she left me. Or maybe I was suppose to go out an buy milk. I forget. Anyway… off to salsa class.
March 5, 2015 at 1:56 pm #1024802scoot
Participant@rcannon100 110181 wrote:
Here are the options
(a) Park. (b) Double park. (c) Drive round and round.
I suspect I would choose option (d): park a few blocks away in the RPP zone and either wait for a phone call or else text my exact location to the arriving passenger. Granted that’s not legal either without a zone sticker, but I would expect no problems if I remained in the car and ready to move it. The only reason I would choose this over (b) is my own perception that I would be a little more out of other people’s way, and less likely to be the victim of a parking enforcement officer having a bad day. But if you don’t carry a cell phone, then option (d) is impractical anyway. So I completely agree with your logic here, since it sounds like the double-parking isn’t as disruptive at Ballston as it is elsewhere. As long as you remain in the vehicle and can move it at a moment’s notice if it does cause a problem.
This discussion touches on a few themes common to many topics on this forum. On one hand, why have laws if you refuse to enforce them? Exhibit A: Don’t park in bike lanes. Exhibit B: Yield to pedestrians in crosswalks with walk signal. Exhibit C: Speed limits. Conversely, if the most prudent behavior for a given situation is technically illegal, shouldn’t that be fixed? Failing this, we put otherwise law-abiding citizens at risk of facing legal repercussions for doing the right thing. Exhibit
Idaho stop. Exhibit E: Cross a double-yellow line in order to pass a bicycle with safe clearance. Exhibit F: Jaywalking.
March 5, 2015 at 2:30 pm #1024787bobco85
Participant@rcannon100 110181 wrote:
Usually how it works is people say that they will meet at some time at some place…
…So which is selfish? Demanding that people conform to your notions – or just not worrying about it and letting people figure it out themselves as many peoples situations are different, than say yours (after all the paradigm of selfish is defining how the world operates by yourself).
I read your post and am responding to the whole post, but for the sake of keeping things brief, I’m only showing the start and end of it.
First off, I did not mean to offend you personally. That said, there are a few points I made that I think you misunderstood or misconstrued.
For one, I did not know you do not have a cell phone, and I can understand how it can be harder to coordinate pick-ups without one.
When I suggested parking in a metered spot, I mentioned putting money in the meter. Thus, you would be paying for a temporary parking spot instead of double parking. I do find metered spots more valuable than a kiss and ride to the local neighborhood in this case (metered spots help the businesses around them, kiss and rides do not). It is an option which I do not think you considered.
Regarding bike lanes and delivery trucks, I shouldn’t have mentioned the poorly thought-out, illogical, and thus deleted rant that never made it into my final post, but using things against me that I did not end up saying is a straw man argument.
What I meant to point out is that I do not think double parking is necessary. What it boils down to is that you know you’re not supposed to do it, you’ve found an exploit in that it has a lax enforcement, and you have some justifications for it (some good and some not so good), but in the end you’re still only benefitting yourself (and wife by extension) versus the local population which makes me consider the act selfish. Doing so does not make you a jerk, and you may be choosing the lesser of two evils for good reasons, but still you’re choosing an evil.
I’m not going to condemn you for double parking, but I’m not going to support it. My opinion is that it shouldn’t be done because there are alternative solutions available, inconvenient they may be. I care only enough to make sure my opinion is not misunderstood or misconstrued. Hopefully this clears things up a bit.
March 5, 2015 at 3:14 pm #1024811Crickey7
ParticipantSo, how ’bout that snow?
March 5, 2015 at 4:46 pm #1024828ShawnoftheDread
ParticipantBob and Bob, as you’re both on my team you should be riding your bikes and not double or single parking or discussing it.
March 5, 2015 at 5:20 pm #1024833rcannon100
Participant@ShawnoftheDread 110242 wrote:
you should be riding your bikes
Have you looked outside?? It’s scarey! Only a moron would go out and ride in this weather!
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March 5, 2015 at 5:53 pm #1024839consularrider
Participant@rcannon100 110248 wrote:
Have you looked outside?? It’s scarey! Only a moron would go out and ride in this weather!
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Hey, I resemble that remark!
March 5, 2015 at 6:28 pm #1024840bobco85
Participant@ShawnoftheDread 110242 wrote:
Bob and Bob, as you’re both on my team you should be riding your bikes and not double or single parking or discussing it.
No worries, I will be out and about after work. Being the crazy bike person who commutes in all weather to the office sometimes leads to being the ONLY person at the office!
March 10, 2015 at 12:44 am #1025202lordofthemark
ParticipantHeads up. Water Street SW between the fish market and 9th street is now closed. For those of us who do not take the lane on Maine Avenue, the available routes westbound are the sidewalk on the north side of Maine to the crossing to right in front of the fishmarket, then the newly completed wide sidewalk adjacent to the fish market, or up to Banneker park to the bridge to Hain’s Point.
Also its a joy to ride the MVT in the light, without headlights making it impossible to see. OTOH I need to time things better, so the sun is not in my eyes heading westbound on the 4MRT.
March 10, 2015 at 1:29 am #1025210sjclaeys
ParticipantWith the warmer weather I saw the return of the unbuckled helmet wearer. The closely related helmet on the handlebars storer is sure to be here soon too.
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