Missed connection

[baiskeli]

@huskerdont 191556 wrote:

“”State”” because we’re really a Commonwealth?

We’re a state with an old nickname.

[bentbike33]

@huskerdont 191556 wrote:

“”State”” because we’re really a Commonwealth?

Aha! That’s the loophole!

[huskerdont]

@baiskeli 191566 wrote:

We’re a state.

Careful. Use that terminology at GGW and some pedant will call you out. (This really happened.)

[huskerdont]

@baiskeli 191554 wrote:

Hi, cyclist salmoning around cars stopped to allow me to cross as a pedestrian in Ballston, almost hitting me. Don’t do that.

If only Bob had been there, he would have chased you down and given you a stern talking-to, but alas.

I slowed last week to allow pedestrians to cross legally in a crosswalk in DC. A cyclist behind me started ringing his bell and charged through them. I did, in fact, catch up with him and told him how stupid that was.

[MFC]

@huskerdont 191571 wrote:

I slowed last week to allow pedestrians to cross legally in a crosswalk in DC. A cyclist behind me started ringing his bell and charged through them. I did, in fact, catch up with him and told him how stupid that was.

One time stopped like that once, I was hit from behind by another cyclist (and not someone who was drafting off me). No one was hurt, and the guy was apologetic, but still . . .

[baiskeli]

@huskerdont 191570 wrote:

Careful. Use that terminology at GGW and some pedant will call you out. (This really happened.)

They don’t know who they’re dealing with.

[Subby]

Hey idiot e-biker who came flying out of the middle of the crystal city connector tunnel and almost took out my friend – you are a massive tool, slow tf down, have a nice day.

[Brendan von Buckingham]

Hey Mr. Head Down in your Phone with Headphones on. It’s a bad idea to walk exactly along the yellow line on the Ft. Cass Trail downhill, especially on the curve where the vines narrow the trail. I hope you lived through your commute.

[lordofthemark]

Me, at the NE corner of King and Beauregard, turned to cross in the crosswalk across Beauregard

You: The passenger in the pick up or SUV (I don’t remember) with the window rolled down, blocking the crosswalk, waiting to turn on red, while the ped signal for the crosswalk you were blocking was “go”

Me; “Its illegal to block a crosswalk”

You: “so what?”

You are the perfect example of local motorist arrogance, and why its so hard for me to get worked up about scooter riders, bad cyclists, and the rest. I do intend to mention your behavior as an example, when speaking to public officials.

[Hancockbs]

Me, riding northeast along the ART, coming off the pedestrian bridge near the skating pavilion.

You, Park Police Officer driving his cruiser southwest bound on the ART, coming onto the same pedestrian bridge at 15-20 mph.

Me, flat palm out, “what are you doing shrug”.

You, after I pass, window rolled down, hand out, hitting your attention getter twice like you wanted me to come back.

Me, you’re crazy if you think I’m turning around and coming back when you’re too lazy to even get out of the car.

I did call and report the incident to the SGT on duty at the Anacostia station. She asked the pertinent questions and said shed try to fin the officer to have an appropriate discussion.

[scoot]

@lordofthemark 191732 wrote:

Me, at the NE corner of King and Beauregard, turned to cross in the crosswalk across Beauregard

You: The passenger in the pick up or SUV (I don’t remember) with the window rolled down, blocking the crosswalk, waiting to turn on red, while the ped signal for the crosswalk you were blocking was “go”

Me; “Its illegal to block a crosswalk”

You: “so what?”

This post piqued my curiosity so I decided to gather some data at this location over the weekend. Near the end of my Saturday morning ride, I stopped and collected 16 minutes of video (8 traffic light cycles) of vehicles turning from SB Walter Reed / Beauregard onto WB King Street. I hung out on the hill near Wells Fargo behind the large sign, and I do not believe my presence affected driver behavior in any way. I got around to analyzing the video this afternoon.

Some numbers:
37 drivers entered the right-turn lane during this 16-minute period.
32 turned on red, the other 5 did so on green or yellow lights.
20 of the 32 (63%) RTOR drivers did not stop at all anywhere during their turns.

Of the 12 drivers who did stop their vehicles somewhere:

Only 1 vehicle stopped before the front axle crossed SL
Another 2 vehicles stopped beyond SL, but before front bumper crossed CW0
1 other vehicle stopped while barely across CW0, not blocking much of crosswalk
7 vehicles blocked at least half the crosswalk while stopped.
1 driver proceeded through SL, CW0, and beyond CW1 before stopping (thus not blocking crosswalk while stopped).

(SL: stop line, CW0: northeastern edge of crosswalk, CW1: southwestern edge of crosswalk)

So 29 of 32 (91%) RTOR drivers failed to stop before entering the crosswalk.

Looking at the three drivers who did stop before the CW: One was a box truck, the only commercial vehicle in the sample. Perhaps his elevated position offered him a sufficient view of King St traffic that other drivers did not have. Another was a woman driving a blue Hyundai who stopped for almost a full minute and did not appear to be seeking an opportunity to RTOR (although she did eventually do so before the light cycle changed). As for the one driver who stopped even before SL? Extenuating circumstance: he was stuck waiting for one of the seven crosswalk-blockers to clear in front of him.

Three pedestrians used the northside crosswalk along King Street during the 16-min video. All three crossed from east to west. One crossed in front of the Hyundai driver 33 seconds after she had stopped. The other two, a couple, crossed without vehicular interactions (although one of the 20 non-stopping drivers had gone through while they had been crossing the NB lanes of Beauregard).

[scoot]

Summary / TLDR:

The vast majority of RTOR drivers at King & Beauregard either don’t stop at all or else they block the crosswalk while stopped. It is true that most drivers cannot see sufficiently down King Street to identify a safe RTOR opportunity from behind the stop line. In this situation, most drivers opt to block the crosswalk while scanning traffic rather than wait for a green.

The only practical way to improve this problem in the short term would seem to be No Turn on Red. Even then, I would expect poor compliance with that signage unless heavily enforced.

[mstone]

I wonder if you can enter a video into the record at a public meeting

[Steve O]

@scoot 191784 wrote:

The only practical way to improve this problem in the short term would seem to be No Turn on Red. Even then, I would expect poor compliance with that signage unless heavily enforced.

When the No Turn on Red was implemented at N. Wakefield and Fairfax Drive/I-66 on-ramp in Arlington, there was a short period of time that APD gave out warnings (they did not ticket at first, which to me seems reasonable). My experience lately has been that compliance there is high–not perfect, but high. That said, I believe many of the users of that intersection are regulars who use it every day. Once they learned about the NTOR it became habitual to wait. On occasions when I have noted drivers edging forward and I point out the sign, they immediately stop and wait. They were non-compliant because they did not notice, not because they were deliberately ignoring.

There are several NTOR intersections along the Custis in Rosslyn. My best guess from observation is that regular users of these intersections almost always comply. The non-compliant are people who do not see the NTOR signs because they are looking at traffic. I think the percentage of drivers who deliberately ignore NTOR is small.

I do not know how many of the users at the King & Beauregard intersection would be regulars. My guess is fewer, which might make normalizing “wait for green” more difficult.

[scoot]

@Steve O 191787 wrote:

N. Wakefield and Fairfax Drive/I-66 on-ramp in Arlington … On occasions when I have noted drivers edging forward and I point out the sign, they immediately stop and wait. They were non-compliant because they did not notice, not because they were deliberately ignoring.

@Steve O 191787 wrote:

There are several NTOR intersections along the Custis in Rosslyn. My best guess from observation is that regular users of these intersections almost always comply. The non-compliant are people who do not see the NTOR signs because they are looking at traffic. I think the percentage of drivers who deliberately ignore NTOR is small.

Interesting. I suspect you are correct. It would require a more extensive effort to test that one.

I would certainly hypothesize that the percentage of drivers who run reds turning left or going straight is far smaller than the number who will make RTORs in violation of red arrows or NTOR signage. If true, the question would be: why? It could be that they do in fact intend to comply with traffic controls. But on the other hand, the risks of running those signals are far more obvious to drivers than the risks of RTOR, so it could also simply reflect an aversion to extremely damaging collisions such as T-Bones.

The Wakefield drivers’ reactions are a good sign, but I would not be too confident that this behavior constitutes evidence of a failure to notice the NTOR sign. The drivers might have been aware of it and thought they could turn safely anyway (as they had previously), but upon being called out upon it also don’t think it’s worth a possible confrontation.

@Steve O 191787 wrote:

I do not know how many of the users at the King & Beauregard intersection would be regulars. My guess is fewer, which might make normalizing “wait for green” more difficult.

The calendar and clock also come into play here. At rush hour, King & Beauregard may have more regular users than it does at 9:30am on a Saturday.

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