Missed connection

[VikingMariner]

@mstone 179690 wrote:

Maybe, but that won’t stop the bitching.

I know, right?!

[VikingMariner]

Just to stir the pot, how are lights okay on the road but not on the trail? Do the trees on the trail reflect light back like a magnifier in broad day light? lol omg wtf

In 50 years of cycling, some of it racing, I have never heard such unfounded claims that a battery-operated bike light could “hurt” someone’s eyes on even a cloudy day just on the trail only. The culture of cycling certainly has changed in the last five years, like the guy, who tapped someone on the head and caused a crash because he had some imaginary rule about passing other cycles.

For less experienced riders, keep your lights on when on the trail. Cars will see you at road intersections and so will pedestrians, with their back to you when they see a light reflecting off a sign or tree in a “merciless flash” of light. If anyone has the eyes hurting from such a low power light please see an eye doctor or psychologist. Please do not challenge someone on the trail about it because there are the truly crazy out there that may slab you for not minding your own business (not me though because I will just laugh at you for being harmlessly silly).

Cycling is not about controlling the behavior of others. It’s not about taking your personal problems out on other people while riding. It’s about being free and happy. It use to be about breaking the rules sometimes. It’s about taking risks. It’s about having a health respect for larger vehicles and making peace with others rather than viewing it as combat.

Please don’t take this as an angry post because honestly I’m laughing. This thread is so funny! Beers are on me if I see any of you in person. Seriously, bike light on trail only hurts your eyes. Wah-hahahaha! Now I’ve heard it all. smdh

[baiskeli]

@VikingMariner 179820 wrote:

Just to stir the pot, how are lights okay on the road but not on the trail? Do the trees on the trail reflect light back like a magnifier in broad day light? lol omg wtf

In 50 years of cycling, some of it racing, I have never heard such unfounded claims that a battery-operated bike light could “hurt” someone’s eyes on even a cloudy day just on the trail only. The culture of cycling certainly has changed in the last five years, like the guy, who tapped someone on the head and caused a crash because he had some imaginary rule about passing other cycles.

For less experienced riders, keep your lights on when on the trail. Cars will see you at road intersections and so will pedestrians, with their back to you when they see a light reflecting off a sign or tree in a “merciless flash” of light. If anyone has the eyes hurting from such a low power light please see an eye doctor or psychologist. Please do not challenge someone on the trail about it because there are the truly crazy out there that may slab you for not minding your own business (not me though because I will just laugh at you for being harmlessly silly).

Cycling is not about controlling the behavior of others. It’s not about taking your personal problems out on other people while riding. It’s about being free and happy. It use to be about breaking the rules sometimes. It’s about taking risks. It’s about having a health respect for larger vehicles and making peace with others rather than viewing it as combat.

Please don’t take this as an angry post because honestly I’m laughing. This thread is so funny! Beers are on me if I see any of you in person. Seriously, bike light on trail only hurts your eyes. Wah-hahahaha! Now I’ve heard it all. smdh

So you’ve never heard of someone complaining about a light hurting their eyes, therefore it can’t happen, therefore you mock it and think it’s jut about control and not their eyes.

[secstate]

@VikingMariner 179820 wrote:

Please don’t take this as an angry post because honestly I’m laughing. This thread is so funny! Beers are on me if I see any of you in person. Seriously, bike light on trail only hurts your eyes. Wah-hahahaha! Now I’ve heard it all. smdh

Please, please, not in this thread, not again…

[huskerdont]

I’m gonna be a bit of a contrarian and say that a blinking headlight on a trail isn’t the worst idea. I’ve seen a lot lately what with the dreary weather, and they without question made those riders more visible than they otherwise would have been. If you would use a blinking light on a road to be seen by car drivers, why not on a trail to be seen by other users, including car drivers at intersections?

Some blinkies really do strobe though. If you see that yours is causing people to shield their eyes, fall into epileptic fits, or run off into the trees ala Peter Sagan, yeah, maybe turn that one off.

My own blinky won’t go from blinking to solid unless you hold the button down firmly and consistently for 10 seconds, and if you go 13 seconds, it just turns off, which is all really difficult to do every time you go from the road to the trail to an intersection like the IoD. I do try, but if one morning at 6:00 you see me coming down the hill toward Roslyn and it’s still blinking, please accept my apologies.

[ursus]

I haven’t posted about this before here, but since it is a sore spot with me, I will. I try to twist my light to the side when someone is approaching. I find it very difficult to actually dim the light by partially covering it with my hand, probably due to my age which requires both hands on the bar. No one has ever complained when I do this and sometimes I get thanks, so I assume that this is fine. My light from Light & Motion has three brightness levels plus flashing. I almost always use the lowest of the three levels which is fine for me to see and of course saves on running time, so dimming it that way is impossible. I think that others have also stated that the blinking mode is very disconcerting to approaching traffic and I don’t use it. (Edit after huskerdont’s post. mines strobes.)

On occasion I do not twist the light due to the fact that I don’t see the oncoming traffic until the last minute because they themselves don’t have a light or often even useful reflectors. This happens mainly with pedestrians but sometimes with other cyclists. The Reston area on the W&OD seems to be the worst for some reason — it may just be because there are a lot of people there.

The problem is not nearly as acute on roads as on trails, probably because roads are much wider. When one sees a cyclist on a trail it does not become a problem until (s)he gets quite close. When one gets that close on a road the angle is much greater and it is not a problem. OTOH cars using their brights can be a problem.

[Crickey7]

@huskerdont 179826 wrote:

If you would use a blinking light on a road to be seen by car drivers, why not on a trail to be seen by other users, including car drivers at intersections?

First of all, I’d like to say I’m not going to give anyone a hard time about a blinkie on the trail. It rates low on the list of grievances, but it’s still an annoyance, and I think that on most trails, it’s unnecessary. It’s also distinguishable from road use in that on the road, there are typically lots of lights present, and one more isn’t much of a factor. Also, unless it’s a two-way bike lane, you’re usually not aiming it directly at another cyclist. On the trail, our eyes adjust to the lower ambient light levels. A blinkie is jarring and mildly uncomfortable. But still, again, it’s a matter of being extra polite, not being safe or unsafe.

[lordofthemark]

@huskerdont 179826 wrote:

If you would use a blinking light on a road to be seen by car drivers, why not on a trail to be seen by other users, including car drivers at intersections?.

Standard width of a road lane, 10 feet minimum (but plenty of undieted lanes wider than that though). Standard width of a “lane” on a trail, about five feet I guess. Or narrower where the trail (or two way PBL) is not that wide. I am thinking that is the difference. Not to mention that some popular trails are twistier than a typical road. Due to both of these things, an oncoming bike headlight on a trail has a greater chance of getting into the eyes of a cyclist, than an oncoming bike headlight has of getting into the eyes of a car driver (or for that matter, another vehicular cyclist in the opposite direction general travel lane) . I think.

Am I wrong?

[huskerdont]

@Crickey7 179829 wrote:

First of all, I’d like to say I’m not going to give anyone a hard time about a blinkie on the trail. It rates low on the list of grievances, but it’s still an annoyance, and I think that on most trails, it’s unnecessary. It’s also distinguishable from road use in that on the road, there are typically lots of lights present, and one more isn’t much of a factor. Also, unless it’s a two-way bike lane, you’re usually not aiming it directly at another cyclist. On the trail, our eyes adjust to the lower ambient light levels. A blinkie is jarring and mildly uncomfortable. But still, again, it’s a matter of being extra polite, not being safe or unsafe.

I get that visibility is more important and more difficult on a roadway than on a trail. In retrospect, I think I’m more concerned about trail/road intersections, such as the IoD (and the two before it, which can also be dangerous). In the mornings I end up sometimes at that intersection with my light off because I was not successful in holding down the damn button for 10 seconds while bouncing down the hill with one hand on the handlebars.

[ursus]

@Crickey7 179829 wrote:

First of all, I’d like to say I’m not going to give anyone a hard time about a blinkie on the trail. It rates low on the list of grievances, but it’s still an annoyance, and I think that on most trails, it’s unnecessary. It’s also distinguishable from road use in that on the road, there are typically lots of lights present, and one more isn’t much of a factor. Also, unless it’s a two-way bike lane, you’re usually not aiming it directly at another cyclist. On the trail, our eyes adjust to the lower ambient light levels. A blinkie is jarring and mildly uncomfortable. But still, again, it’s a matter of being extra polite, not being safe or unsafe.

JMHO. Blinkies are fine on trails. I am overjoyed when pedestrians have them and happy when bikers use them. I have a problem with high-powered lights operated in blinking mode especially those that strobe.

[dasgeh]

@huskerdont 179832 wrote:

I get that visibility is more important and more difficult on a roadway than on a trail. In retrospect, I think I’m more concerned about trail/road intersections, such as the IoD (and the two before it, which can also be dangerous). In the mornings I end up sometimes at that intersection with my light off because I was not successful in holding down the damn button for 10 seconds while bouncing down the hill with one hand on the handlebars.

When trails cross roads often (like the Custis in Rosslyn), I’m more forgiving about having blinkies. And yes, it’s unrealistic to expect people to switch from blinkie to solid quickly. But if you’re headed to EFC on the Custis, there’s probably time to switch it over.

But also, a front/rear blinkie doesn’t help you if you’re heading west bound on the Custis in Rosslyn. The drivers who can’t see you are the ones also heading westbound and turning right, northbound onto Lynn (or the side streets). You need side lighting to get their attention.

[VikingMariner]

Re: ” You need side lighting to get their attention.”

Modern high-end lights are include the sides. Also a coming to a stop or low speed and turning the wheel left or right gets the attention of motor vehicle operators at trail intersections. Every ride I see traffic stop for flashing daytime lighting. Also see pedestrians with their backs facing me take note–in many cases turning their heads, waving, or saying thank you as I pass. Made up local rules on a website are no substitute for actual safety. The price of these lights have come down in the last two years. Everyone should get them and it’s only a matter of time before manufacturers make them standard equipment on high-end bikes.

In 50 years of cycling, flashing lights turned out to be one of the best pieces of low cost equipment that has certainly made my rides safer, and not just for myself. There is no way that even a strobe light in broad daylight even at 5 meters could impair someone’s version even if a person looked directly into it. But how do I know that? Because I see many more people with strobe lights on the trail–the number has probably increased eight fold and for good reason. Police strobe lights (even school bus strobes) have much more power on and off the trail. Why it is that we never this complaint during the day? These imaginary pains and complaints should just end.

New cyclists–don’t let these strange ideas distract you from taking the necessary steps to protect your safety and the safety of others.

This discussion reminds be of the helmet arguments back in the day.

[bobco85]

I thought about posting something witty/snarky/etc., but I figured I’d get people to do something more constructive. It’s over on this thread: http://bikearlingtonforum.com/showthread.php?p=179903#post179903

I have done this before, and I recommend folks try it out. We might all learn something.

[dasgeh]

@VikingMariner 179900 wrote:

Re: ” You need side lighting to get their attention.”

Modern high-end lights are include the sides. Also a coming to a stop or low speed and turning the wheel left or right gets the attention of motor vehicle operators at trail intersections. Every ride I see traffic stop for flashing daytime lighting. Also see pedestrians with their backs facing me take note–in many cases turning their heads, waving, or saying thank you as I pass. Made up local rules on a website are no substitute for actual safety. The price of these lights have come down in the last two years. Everyone should get them and it’s only a matter of time before manufacturers make them standard equipment on high-end bikes.

In 50 years of cycling, flashing lights turned out to be one of the best pieces of low cost equipment that has certainly made my rides safer, and not just for myself. There is no way that even a strobe light in broad daylight even at 5 meters could impair someone’s version even if a person looked directly into it. But how do I know that? Because I see many more people with strobe lights on the trail–the number has probably increased eight fold and for good reason. Police strobe lights (even school bus strobes) have much more power on and off the trail. Why it is that we never this complaint during the day? These imaginary pains and complaints should just end.

New cyclists–don’t let these strange ideas distract you from taking the necessary steps to protect your safety and the safety of others.

This discussion reminds be of the helmet arguments back in the day.

So many things wrong with this post. On side lighting – the little bit of light coming through slits on front facing lights isn’t enough. You need something more substantial, lighting up your sides.

Yes, strobes can impair someone’s vision, and of course it’s worse on a dark trail at night. Our eyes work by adjusting to the amount of light they’re taking in at any given time. When that changes dramatically and quickly, our eyes can’t see well while they’re adjusting. That’s why you don’t hear complaints during the day. And that’s why strobes are worse than steady on a dark trail. These aren’t imaginary pains and complaints.

At the same time, yes, you should take appropriate steps to protect yourself. There isn’t an easy answer, and you should be aware that high powered lights, particularly on the blinky setting, can impair the vision of other trail users. You’ve got to balance the options at hand, the risk of not being seen and not being able to see yourself with the risk of blinding others. Be considerate of others while protecting yourself and you’ll get it right eventually.

[hozn]

There’s a good reason why front blinky lights are simply illegal or regulated (e.g. 200+ blinks per minute) in more cycling-progressive countries.

[Author]

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